Looks like the other way around.
Posted on 12/07/2003 6:39:45 PM PST by Alouette
Palestinians on Sunday failed to reach agreement on a truce offer to Israel after three days of talks mired in arguments.
A top Hamas official told reporters that there would be no closing announcement to the failed ceasefire talks between terrorist factions in Cairo, Sunday.
According to chief representative for the Islamic Jihad, the talks failed due to disagreement on the level of ceasefire to be offered – whether it would be atotal or only limited to within the "green line."
Hamas founder and spiritual leader Ahmed Yassin has told a German magazine that a Jewish state could be established in Europe. In interview excerpts slated for publication on Monday in Der Spiegel, Yassin opposed a two-state solution in which a Palestinian state would coexist next to Israel.
"That would not work," he said. "The Israelis claim 80 per cent of the territory and will only let us have 20 per cent. It would only be an interim solution."
Asked if there was no place at all for a Jewish state, he said, "They could set up a state in Europe." Yassin also rejected the Geneva Accord, which was hammered out between Israeli politicians and Palestinian representatives. "That plan is worse than the Oslo one, because it abandons the right of return for the refugees," he said.
Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei on Sunday failed to persuade Hamas and four Syrian-backed Palestinian groups to accept his proposal for a total cease-fire with Israel.
Maher Taher, a senior delegate for the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, said the factions "had different positions so we didn't agree."
While the talks dragged on here, Israel made clear it would only accept a wide-ranging truce that halted all violence.
The broad truce urged by Fatah and several smaller factions would have halted attacks on civilians inside Israel as well as on Israeli soldiers and Jewish settlers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, in exchange for Israeli reciprocal actions.
Hamas, the smaller Islamic Jihad and three Syrian-based factions wanted a limited cease-fire affecting only civilians inside Israel. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are responsible for most of the suicide bombings in Israel that have killed hundreds.
In the end, the two sides said they would continue the negotiations later but gave no date. From the Cairo meetings, they said, all that could be expected was a final statement.
"The statement will have no mention of refraining from attacks on civilians, cease-fire or authorizing Abu Ala (the Palestinian prime minister)" to negotiate with the Israelis, said Samir Ghosheh, head of the Palestinian Struggle Front, one of the more than a dozen groups that attended the Palestinian talks.
Taher confirmed the outcome. When asked if the final statement would make any mention of the cease-fire options or giving authorization to Qureia, he replied: "None of the above ... and so we will end with a press release."
Along with the broad cease-fire, Hamas and other militant factions had strongly opposed giving Qureia authority to speak for them in any negotiations with Israel.
"We are not ready to give them (the Palestinian Authority) authorization to sign a new agreement," said senior Hamas official Mohammed Nazzal.
Qurei returned to Ramallah empty-handed, saying his objective now was to try and reach a truce between the Palestinian Authority and Israel. "There can be no unilateral or free hudna [temporary truce]," he said.
"We want a cease-fire between the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli government, and not a cease-fire between the Palestinian factions. In return, Israel must stop all forms of aggression on the Palestinian people and land. We want to negotiate with the Israelis about all the issues, not just the hudna."
Representatives of various Palestinian factions had been trying to work out a compromise on a conditional offer of an end to attacks on civilians in Israel. But the proposed compromise would not have stopped attacks on settlers and IDF soldiers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Israel had earlier on Sunday repeated its rejection of any partial agreement that would leave settlers and soldiers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip outside of a ceasefire. "Israel of course can't differentiate between citizens and soldiers," he said, or whether he lives here or there."
Sharon said if violence stops, Israel would scale back its military activities. "Of course if terror activities continue, Israel will feel responsible for the defense of its citizens and Israel will act," he warned after meeting Israel's president Sunday afternoon.
Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a Hamas leader in the Gaza Strip, said the Palestinian Authority should stop talking on behalf of all Palestinians. "A certain group should stop playing with the fate of the Palestinian people," he said. "There should be partnership in making fateful decisions, and this partnership should be based on the centers of power in the Palestinian street. We must respect the opinion of the Palestinian street."
"Israel understands only the language of violence and what we are doing is aimed at liberating the land, ousting the occupation and preserving the holy sites. We can't accept a hudna similar to the one we had in June. The Palestinian people want their freedom and independence and Israel must pay the price for a hudna by halting the construction of the fence and settlements."
"Our final response is that we are not ready to declare a new ceasefire,'' said Muhammed Nazzal, a member of the Hamas delegation to the talks. "Hamas rejects the hudna and won't accept it, because our reading of the current political situation shows that the Americans and the Zionists are in deep crisis because of the continuation of the resistance in Iraq and Palestine."
He said there was a wide gap between Hamas and Fatah on the shape and content of the proposed truce. "This is a very big issue concerning the future of the Palestinian people," Nazzal said.
Nazzal ruled out the possibility that the failure of the Cairo talks could lead to inter-Palestinian fighting. "The Palestinian factions have reached a level of awareness and responsibility that do not allow them to be affected by any political differences," he added. "Internal fighting is a red line, and any confrontation on the ground is also a red line. The weapons will be directed only against the enemy."
Maher Taher, a senior delegate from the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, said disagreements over whether to offer a full cease-fire or a limited truce that would only stop attacks inside Israel could not be bridged. "There are disagreements about the nature of a cease-fire," he told The Associated Press.
"The factions have different positions on the issue."
When asked whether the statement would include reference to halting attacks on civilians, a broader cease-fire or a mandate to the Palestinian Authority to negotiate terms with Israel, he replied: "None of the above ... and so we will end with a press release."
A spokesman for Islamic Jihad said his group would not "sacrifice its values so that [US President George] Bush can win re-election." Meanwhile, bureau chiefs Dov Weisglass and Hassan Abu Libdeh concluded a two-hour meeting in preparation for the expected Sharon – Qurei meeting.
Israeli officials have rejected an agreement between Palestinian factions meeting in Cairo to halt attacks on civilians inside Israel, but without declaring an end to attacks against soldiers or settlers in the territories.
The officials said the government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will reject any cease-fire offer that does not include a complete halt of violence against all Israelis, and does not dismantle the Palestinian terror infrastructure in line with the demands of the road map peace plan.
Herb Keinon and AP contributed to this report.
Looks like the other way around.
Oh gee, so in order for the Israelis to prove their spirituality to you they should all abandon their country and walk into the sea.
"Israel understands only the language of violence..."
If someone spoke Swahili to me every time they opened their mouth,sooner or later I would come to understand what it was they were trying to get across.These people should be gratefull for the fact that Israel doesn't yet fully understand what it is they are trying to get across...when it does finally dawn on them...there will be no more talk of Palestinian states in Israel.There probably won't be much talking at all.
"Palestinians on Sunday failed to reach agreement..."
"...the talks failed due to disagreement..."
"had different positions so we didn't agree."
"He said there was a wide gap between Hamas and Fatah..."
"There are disagreements about the nature of a cease-fire,"
"The factions have different positions on the issue."
and yet...
"The Palestinian factions have reached a level of awareness and responsibility that do not allow them to be affected by any political differences,"
These people seem only to be actually united on one issue...
"They could set up a state in Europe."
With the current rise in anti-semetism in Europe one would have to wonder how long that would last were Israel to take up the lunatic offer of moving house...then where?...the bottom of the Mediterranean sea?
These folks talk as though they had some sort of control as to which direction this issue might take.
"Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he shall not depart from it"(Proverbs 22:6)....children are certainly being trained and it will take a miracle to get them to depart from it.
Wether it be Israel,America or God Himself....these folks are bringing swift destruction on their own heads.
Thanks for the post.
God bless
ps.could you please add me to your ping list?
I think pretty much everybody here knows this whole "issue" will only be resolved in one way. War is a violent, brutal thing, and not something we should recklessly turn to, yet this endless charade of diplomatic pretense on the part of the enemies of Israel and the Jewish people while they continue to try and bleed Israel to a slow death is also something that won't continue forever.
Ultimately the House of Israel is in the hands of the One Who has kept them over these almost two millenia; that exclusive relationship He has had with them inevitably modelled yet again in His direct intervention in their experience—unless everything written in "The Book" are empty fables.
But I think not.
"...22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD." (Ezekial 39)
I think, after the dust settles, Israel will do well. Nevertheless, there is some angst, personal and otherwise, in the interim....
No, no need to walk into the sea. But my essential point stands. This is a fight over land.
Once it was Palestine. Then it became Israel. Now the Palestinians want it to be Palestine again.
Both peoples consider that they have a God-given right to occupy this place, to the detriment of the other. Many religious conflicts have this essential form. They clothe themselves in a garb of religiosity and the combatants claim a Divine directive, when what is truly at stake is something completely worldly.
Why don't you learn some manners?
Israael is the historical homeland for the Jews, period.
You mean the state of Israel? Or the land which is now encompassed by the state of Israel? The latter is true. The former is not. It is also the historical homeland for many Arabs.
Palestine was never a self governing entity.
No it wasn't. It was governed by the British latterly. Irrespective of who governed it, it was home to a large number of Arabs. As it still is today. And if those Arabs who now live in refugee camps still lived there, they would constitute a majority.
If ever a people needed a homeland outside of Europe, it's the Jews. A fight over "land" you say? Land that Jews were denied access to in World War II when thay faced Hitler's ovens.
"Denied access to." What do you mean? Denied the right to live there? Or denied their own state? Are you saying the Holocaust would never have happened had Israel been in existence?
I don't believe for one minute that even the Arabs, for whom I have nothing but contempt, are fighting over "material". Their intense spiritual drive stems from an inferiority complex in the face of their decadent civilization.
They're fighting over L-A-N-D. Using tactics which are inhuman and barbaric. There is a also a wider conflict underway between Islamic fundamentalism and Christianity which again pretends to be spiritual but which is also about LAND. They want westerners and non-Muslims out of Islamic territory i.e. the Middle East. Islamic LAND is not for infidels, in their opinion.
This materialism can also be seen in the Jewish attitude toward the Messiah. Someone who would restore the kingdom to Israel. But Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world." As you may know, this did not sit well with the Jews.
This is NOT about materialism. Got it?
I respectfully disagree.
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