Teacher tells kids Santa is 'make-believe' (1st graders)

AP ^ | Thursday, December 4, 2003

[presidio9]

Sandra Jolly said her 6-year-old son's Christmas was spoiled when his teacher told the first-grade class Monday that "Santa Claus is make-believe."

"He had this sad, lost puppy dog look on his face. This unhappy, empty look," Jolly said. "He said his teacher informed the entire class that Santa is make-believe."

[FLAMING DEATH]

haha!

[beezdotcom]

but to say your child is utterly devastated and "destroyed" simply because they found out Santa is not real is a bit over the top

You're right, and it's a shame their hyperbole has obscured the REAL issue - which is that this teacher is a mean-spirited, heartless crone, and she needs to learn to butt out. She's in the same catgeory as the town gossip, who gets a thrill by being the first person to repeat some salacious tidbit - but in this case, she's got a Jones for pooping the party of some first graders and their parents.

[CajunConservative]

Well, this seems like a good place to jump in with something I read a few years ago. I told my son this story a few years ago, as he embarked on his transition from little childhood to older childhood. The point was to make the transition from literal belief in Santa to being able to deal with the *concept* of Santa. I don't know who wrote it:

What a wonderful story. Thanks for sharing it!

[bootless]

You're welcome - I love Google.

Now that I think about it, it was in Dear Abby or Ann Landers a few years ago.

Thinking back to the two recollections of learning about Santa, the parents' reactions were quite cruel and heartless.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

I never advocated misleading anyone, nor providing incorrect information. If you re-read, I said the best thing to do in such situations is to simply not answer in the nicest way possible

Incorrect... and wildly, flagrantly so, to boot. Numerous others on this thread have already corrected you, re: the non-existent "difference" (note exculpatory quotes) between lying by omission and lying, outright. None of those arguments have, as of this writing, yet to be adequately refuted by you; and I see no need to dogpile further, until you've addressed them cogently and (if possible) convincingly.

"Saying 'I can't tell you that right now, because you're not ready for that responsibility' is not deliberately setting out to deceive or mislead."

As stated previously: I'm aware of the fact that you're attempting to split this particular hair into its sub-molecular component parts. I am not convinced in the existence of the difference you postulate, nor do I accept any arguments using same as their foundation. Try another approach; that one doesn't bear up under even moderately close examination.

You're responding to what you believe I said.

If it makes you feel happier or more secure to believe so: more power to you.

Again, however: you still (third time, now) have yet to effectively gainsay my own earlier contention -- namely, that lying is lying (whether by omission, or misdirection, or we'll-talk-about-that-some-other-time misdirection leaving them with a faulty command of the facts, or what-have-you); and that the side waving torches and pitchforks and baying for Santa's imaginary blood are -- speciously; hypocritically -- attempting to reserve the "right" to lie/misdirect/[Insert Euphemism Here] to kids whenever and however THEY see fit... without ever actually having to cop to the fact that they are, in fact, l-y-i-n-g. End of sentence; end of paragraph; end of story.

Is telling a child that you can't tell them about certain things because they aren't ready to learn about them the same as lying? If so, explain.

Already addressed numerous times, both by others and myself... but, once more, with feeling: because if they walk away from you with information you know to be false, specifically because you opted not to leave them with factual knowledge, instead... the end results are no less deceitful, or pernicious. And you'd think those banging their highchairs most loudly and insistently versus the "wrongness" and "immorality" of "lying to children" would be just a hair quicker -- and just a shade less disingenuous -- in 'fessing up to the transparent, baseline truth.

[CajunConservative]

You have to understand that this was a hat trick. The students found out in one day that neither Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny were real.

My niece is this age and Christmas has been so much fun the last couple of years. I am glad her first grade teacher hasn't spoiled her childhood innocence. She also lost 3 teeth last week and made out like a bandit from the tooth fairy too. She was so excited about her money. She was a happy kid singing "All I Want For Christmas is My Three Front Teeth".

All I can say is that teacher better be thankful that she wasn't my niece's teacher. She would have caught hell from my sister.

[FLAMING DEATH]

Let me give you an example.

Let's say someone asks me a personal question, such as "How much money do you make?".

I can respond in three different ways:

Lying: "Oh, scads. I use hundred dollar bills to line the birdcage, and I have a whole room wallpapered with $50's."

Truth: "Not much."

Not answering the question (withholding the truth): "I don't feel that is something that I need to share with you."

No one in their right mind would say that #3 was a lie, because I never tried to create any impression, true or false, about the situation, and this approach should have been used by the teacher (That's something you should discuss with your parents."). It should also be used by parents when their kids ask them questions that they don't necessarily want to answer (I can't tell you how babies are made, because that's something you need to wait until you are a little older to know.").

[Howlin]

Well, frankly, I'm surprised at you; since you have chosen to demean anybody who doesn't believe that the magic of Santa is a lie, I had supposed that you wouldn't lie about anything at all, being so pristine and honest and all.

I guess that just goes to show that you, too, pick and choose the things you wish to be truthful about.

I "lie" about Santa for the simple joy of it; for the magic in children's eyes and faces.


But unlike you, I don't hold myself up and judge others' choices. And by holding yourself above the rest of us, I'd say you have bigger issues than any of the rest of us.

Anybody who protests as much as you do about Santa Claus just might be the biggest liar in the world in real life.

[FLAMING DEATH]

Okay, Kent.

By your own logic, I can make you lie. Here goes.

How often do you have sex?

And remember, if you withhold the truth, you are lying.

[Howlin]

My niece is this age and Christmas has been so much fun the last couple of years.

Isn't it wonderful to get to go back and do it all over again? I had honestly forgotten how much fun it was!

[CajunConservative]

Isn't it wonderful to get to go back and do it all over again? I had honestly forgotten how much fun it was!

Yes it is. Her siblings are are 25 and 23 so we all tend to go overboard because we know that in just a short while the magic will be gone.

[snowstorm12]

The teacher is a moron to start a discussion with kids about reality anyways. Kids believe in a lot of silly things, like cartoon characters, spooks, make believe friends, mickey mouse. Fantasy and make believe is the fun part of being a kid. It's too bad some parents obviously don't get it and take that away for the kids. I know I loved getting money under the pillow from a lost tooth. It was fun and the lie was fun and I look back with fond memories of trying to catch a glimpse of santa before I got too tired I couldn't keep my eyes open. The santa story is a harmless tradition that goes with the holiday and only works on the really little kids, eventually kids figure out on their own they put 2+2 together.

[FLAMING DEATH]

"Well, frankly, I'm surprised at you; since you have chosen to demean anybody who doesn't believe that the magic of Santa is a lie, I had supposed that you wouldn't lie about anything at all, being so pristine and honest and all."

How have I demeaned anyone? You're perfectly welcome to believe in the magic of Santa. But if you deceive others into believing that he's a real person, it becomes lying. That's all I'm saying.

"I guess that just goes to show that you, too, pick and choose the things you wish to be truthful about."

Don't we all?

"I "lie" about Santa for the simple joy of it; for the magic in children's eyes and faces."

Fine. That's your choice.

"But unlike you, I don't hold myself up and judge others' choices. And by holding yourself above the rest of us, I'd say you have bigger issues than any of the rest of us."

What do I owe you for the psychoanalysis? ;)

"Anybody who protests as much as you do about Santa Claus just might be the biggest liar in the world in real life."

Well, judging by your hostility at me, I think your posts reveal more about your own personality. I mean, when it comes right down to it, we're talking about a fictional character, and you're calling me a liar because I would refuse to say that he exists. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

[radiohead]

If you let silliness like this fester in kids' minds, that Santa pulls entitlements out of his sack as opposed to them coming from their parents who are working to pay for it...

You know, I bet this sounds a little on the fringe to some people, but that's exactly what my husband and I did w/our son many years ago. We did not want him thinking that he didn't get some toy because he was bad (he was really a pretty good child), or that gifts came from some fairy. His father and I were responsible for him, including any Christmas gifts.

Having said that, kids go thru a period where they believe in the magical. It's just a part of child psychology. Plus, the grandparents and the media kept reinforcing the Santa thing. So, I think our son was pretty sure mom and dad didn't believe in Santa, and that he shouldn't either, but he hoped maybe we were wrong. : )

[Howlin]

Our are grandchildren and we're getting a whole new perspective on it this time around; we are buying everything we see while we can.......I just bought a great Santa Claus on a spring today.........LOL! He rocks and jingles and makes all kinds of noise. Can't wait for the kids to see him!

[Howlin]

No, I'm saying you are demeaning those of us who lie, as you say, about Santa, while you yourself have chosen to lie about other things.

I don't see one other person on here on your butt for lying; you're the one tossing that term around.

I think a good term for you would be hyporcrite.

A lie is a lie, whatever it is.

[FLAMING DEATH]

If I understand what you're saying, you're telling me that an inqiry places a moral imperitive on the person who has been asked to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

That is undoubtedly wrong. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, you have no obligation to answer a question, and stating that you won't do so, and even providing a reason that you won't do so, doesn't make you a liar. If that were true, any personal question, such as the one I asked you earlier and do NOT expect you to answer, would automatically result in a lie if you chose not to answer.

I'm interested, however, in hearing your response.

[CajunConservative]

That Santa is too cute.

Why do some people think they are entitled to suck the joy out of everyone else's life. That's what bothers me most here. We all know that Santa is make believe, we all know the real meaning of Christmas and Easter, but part of childhood is fantasy. That stage of development lasts until about 8 or so. This teacher could have just as easily steered the discussion to something else. She chose to burst these kids bubble right before the biggest day of their year.

[HamiltonJay]

I see, so you are anti sex ed in schools, but pro deposing Santa??? Hmmmmm... interesting perspective.

[FLAMING DEATH]

"No, I'm saying you are demeaning those of us who lie, as you say, about Santa, while you yourself have chosen to lie about other things."

No, that's not it at all. I am saying that it is WRONG to lie. I never tried to justify lying. I am as guilty as you are of lying. But, I will also tell you that whenever I lie, it is wrong.

"I don't see one other person on here on your butt for lying; you're the one tossing that term around. "

I think that is because they see that the issue is not the fact that lying is wrong. We all know that. The issue is whether or not justifying our lies by saying, "It's for the kids," or "I want my children to experience the magic of Santa" is wrong. I'm providing evidence to support my point of view that it is. Believe me, it is nothing personal.

"I think a good term for you would be hyporcrite. "

If what you had said earlier was true, you'd be right. But, you aren't.

The two important questions are:

Is telling kids that Santa is real a lie?

Does providing reasons for lying make it okay?

"A lie is a lie, whatever it is."

Agreed.