Teacher tells kids Santa is 'make-believe' (1st graders)

AP ^ | Thursday, December 4, 2003

[presidio9]

Sandra Jolly said her 6-year-old son's Christmas was spoiled when his teacher told the first-grade class Monday that "Santa Claus is make-believe."

"He had this sad, lost puppy dog look on his face. This unhappy, empty look," Jolly said. "He said his teacher informed the entire class that Santa is make-believe."

[two23]

My kids are grown up and off on their own, but I never perpetuated the Santa myth/lie--whatever its supposed to be. But it wasn't this teachers place to interefere with other peoples family traditions.
She could have just said; "some people are believers, and well, some aren't." and let it go.

[FLAMING DEATH]

Again, you make a vague statement and post no relavent facts.

How did I twist anyone's words?

[FLAMING DEATH]

Ok.

Make a final, sarcastic jab and say, "Adios" before I respond.

Great debate tactic.

[woodyinscc]

No, it isn't. You can put lipstick and earrings on a pig, but it is still a pig.

When you put lipstick and ear rings on a pig, the embellishments fail. When you put a Santa suit on a fat man, you have created a symbol of joy elation happiness and anticipation, for millions of small children. Santa Claus, is not a lie and he is not analogous to a pig with ear rings.

[FLAMING DEATH]

true.

She should have avoided it in any way that would have been practical to do so. She didn't, and she was wrong.

A lot of people want to stop there and not look any further and what caused this situation to come about in the first place...the fact that they passed off a myth to their child as a fact.

To look at both sides of the story would mean that they would have to take a hard look at themselves...something a lot of people are simply unwilling to do, because they know they probably won't like what they see.

[FLAMING DEATH]

"When you put a Santa suit on a fat man, you have created a symbol of joy elation happiness and anticipation, for millions of small children."

Do you think that kids appreciate Santa Claus because he is a symbol of joy, elation, happiness and anticipation? Or do they appreciate him because they believe in their hearts, as surely as they believe in God, that he is real, he is watching them, and he's going to bring them stuff?

"Santa Claus, is not a lie"

If something is not a lie, it is truth. And Santa is not truth.

"and he is not analogous to a pig with ear rings."

In a sense, you're right. A pig wearing earrings is a real, living, breathing, tangible being.

[Howlin]

But seriously, what are you supposed to do when a student asks a teacher a point blank question, maybe one like, “Is Santa Claus real?” Do you tell the truth to enlighten this student? Or do you lie to keep the other children blissfully ignorant? Is there a timeline these teachers should follow? First grade, Santa; second grade, none.

Did you miss this paragraph?

When the subject of Santa came up, the teacher started questioning parts of his story -- How could a fat jolly man fit down a chimney? How could reindeer fly around the world in one night? -- and told the children that wasn't possible.

[Howlin]

I have a direct question for you:

Are you saying that you never, ever lie under any circumstance?

[woodyinscc]

Like I said before your arguments are specious.!!

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

"Lying by omission" is when you snip.

None of which does diddley doo-dah to refute my earlier point. I'll repeat:

You cannot have it both ways, if you are arguing from an absolute moral stance (i.e., that it is "wrong" to "lie to a child.") If you are, in fact, conceding that there are instances where it is desirable and/or permissible to do so... then: the argument presented by the anti-Santa faction, thus far, collapses like a leaky innertube; and another needs to be offered, in its place.

(None of which even approaches the real heart of the matter, in all of this: mainly that it is neither the teacher's right nor responsibility to gainsay the parents on matters such as these. But: one failed premise of the rabid, bug-eyed anti-Santa faction at a time, after all...) :)

[FLAMING DEATH]

I have had several direct questions for you, all of which have gone unanswered.

But, in the spirit of keeping the debate going, I will answer your question.

"Are you saying that you never, ever lie under any circumstance?"

You already know the answer to that question. We're all human beings, and all human beings lie at one time or another. So yes, I have lied before, and probably will again. We all have moments of dishonesty, and it is ridiculous to say that we haven't.

If you're honest, this is how you would answer too.

But, every time I lied, I knew it was wrong to do so.

Let me ask myself a question...have I ever knowingly, continually, perpetuated a lie over a number of years, all the while finding a way to justify it in my own mind?

I can honestly say that I haven't.

Why do you lie about Santa Claus? Your justification seems to be to make kids happy. What if we used that justification to lie to adults, too? What if I lied to a spouse, telling her that I loved her with all my heart, when I didn't? I could say that I didn't want to spoil the "magic" of being married to her, a reason that seems to justify lying to kids about Santa. Could I use the same justification for lying to my adult spouse? After all, I was only trying to make someone happy, right?

Now, answer my question. You said I was good at twisting people's words around. How did I twist anyone's words around?

[bootless]

Well, this seems like a good place to jump in with something I read a few years ago. I told my son this story a few years ago, as he embarked on his transition from little childhood to older childhood. The point was to make the transition from literal belief in Santa to being able to deal with the *concept* of Santa. I don't know who wrote it:

Santa's Team

I remember my first Christmas party with Grandma. I was just a kid. I remember tearing across town on my bike to visit her on the day my big sister dropped the bomb:

"There is no Santa Claus," she jeered. "Even dummies know that!"

My Grandma was not the gushy kind, never had been. I fled to her that day because I knew she would be straight with me. I knew Grandma always told the truth, and I knew that the truth always went down a whole lot easier when swallowed with one of her world-famous cinnamon buns. Grandma was home, and the buns were still warm. Between bites I told her everything. She was ready for me.

"No, Santa Claus!" she snorted. "Ridiculous! Don't believe it. That rumor has been going around for years, and it makes me mad, plain mad. Now, put on your coat, and let's go."

"Go? Go where, Grandma?" I asked. I hadn't even finished my second cinnamon bun.

"Where" turned out to be Kerby's General Store, the one store in town that had a little bit of just about everything. As we walked through its doors, Grandma handed me ten dollars. That was a bundle in those days.

"Take this money," she said, "and buy something for someone who needs it. I'll wait for you in the car." Then she turned and walked out of Kerby's.

I was only eight years old. I'd often gone shopping with my mother, but never had I shopped for anything all by myself. The store seemed big and crowded, full of people scrambling to finish their Christmas shopping. For a few moments I just stood there, confused, clutching that ten-dollar bill, wondering what to buy, and who on earth to buy it for. I thought of everybody I knew: my family, my friends, my neighbors, the kids at school, the people who went to my church. I was just about thought out, when I suddenly thought of Bobbie Decker.

He sat right behind me in Mrs. Pollock's grade-two class.

Bobbie Decker didn't have a coat. I knew that because he never went out for recess during the winter. His mother always wrote a note, telling the teacher that he had a cough, but all us kids knew that Bobbie Decker didn't have a cough, and he didn't have a coat. I fingered the ten-dollar bill with growing excitement. I would buy Bobbie Decker a coat. I settled on a red corduroy one that had a hood to it. It looked real warm, and he would like that.

"Is this a Christmas present for someone?" the lady behind the counter asked kindly, as I laid my ten dollars down.

"Yes," I replied shyly. "It's.....for Bobbie." The nice lady smiled at me. I didn't get any change, but she put the coat in a bag and wished me a Merry Christmas.

That evening, Grandma helped me wrap the coat in Christmas paper and ribbons, and write, "To Bobbie, From Santa Claus" on it -- Grandma said that Santa always insisted on secrecy. Then she drove me over to Bobbie Decker's house, explaining as we went that I was now and forever officially one of Santa's helpers. Grandma parked down the street from Bobbie's house, and she and I crept noiselessly and hid in the bushes by his front walk.

Then Grandma gave me a nudge. "All right, Santa Claus," she whispered, "get going." I took a deep breath, dashed for his front door, threw the present down on his step, pounded his doorbell and flew back to the safety of the bushes and Grandma.

Together we waited breathlessly in the darkness for the front door to open.

Finally it did, and there stood Bobbie.

Forty years haven't dimmed the thrill of those moments spent shivering, beside my grandma, in Bobbie Decker's bushes. That night, I realized that those awful rumors about Santa Claus were just what Grandma said; they were ridiculous. Santa was alive and well, and we were on his team.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

ROTFLOL

WOO-hoo! The Queen FReeper of my state liked one of my postings! I have ARRIVED, bay-bee -- !!! :)

[Lunatic Fringe]

I'm not judging those who wish to tell their children Santa is real... I will most certainly do the same thing when I have children... but to say your child is utterly devastated and "destroyed" simply because they found out Santa is not real is a bit over the top. Perhaps these parents could see this as an opportunity to teach the child about other aspects of Christmas... like giving, compassion, peace, and (gasp!) the story of the birth of the Savior.

[safisoft]

So all you black-and-white do-gooders who think the fable of Santa Claus is worthless rubbish, may your children grow up to be as cynical, cold, and spiritually dead as yourselves.

Santa Claus may lead to "spirituality" but not the kind of "spirituality" that Bible-believers think is good.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2Timothy 4:3-4

As for "intellectually challenged" - you need to do a little more study on the origins of the "Santa Claus" fable before you ascribe "Christian" teachings behind it. That too is a myth.

[FLAMING DEATH]

No, you're wrong.

I never advocated misleading anyone, nor providing incorrect information. If you re-read, I said the best thing to do in such situations is to simply not answer in the nicest way possible (BTW, this is what I suggested that the teacher in the article do as well), especially when such knowledge might be harmful to the person, such as graphic descriptions of death.

Here's the quote from my original post:

"Saying 'I can't tell you that right now, because you're not ready for that responsibility' is not deliberately setting out to deceive or mislead."

You're responding to what you believe I said.

Is telling a child that you can't tell them about certain things because they aren't ready to learn about them the same as lying? If so, explain.

[drjack]

You have to understand that this was a hat trick. The students found out in one day that neither Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny were real.

[bootless]

Good point - which reminds me of something else. My son, since he was a baby, had always loved his stuffed animals. In fact, one of the best illustrations I've ever seen was a drawing in a Reader's Digest of a boy, perhaps 6 or 7, with a teddy bear in one arm, and a slingshot in the other. It personifies boys.

I never had a brother, so as the mother of a son, am learning about the wonders of boyhood. Ever since he was a little boy, he has cuddled his bears, rabbits, whatever (and, btw, has always been gentle with live animals as well). It has been a good springboard for him looking forward to the possibility of being a good dad. I would compliment him on what good care he took of his bear, and how lucky his real children would be.

Of course, he knows they're not real, but it's a great little bit of symbolism for him, and a nice way to learn to "take care" of something outside himself.

And yes, he is as active and rough & tough as any boy. And yes, that's something that he reserves for home, and doesn't bring the animals to school. It's for the place that he trusts the most - home.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I think all these kids need to make up for this devastating truth is a good snipe hunt!

[bootless]

“Check out the big brain on Brett!

ROFL! A do like Pulp Fiction.

Say WHAT again!