"As a candidate, they all thought that she had too many negatives and drew the most intense reactions and that she could sink the democrats chances of taking back the White House."
Posted on 12/01/2003 11:19:05 PM PST by Badray
Tonight was different than most of my evenings. I've spend many evenings involved in political discussions, but this one was at a (Wesley) Clark for President meetup. I was in the belly of the beast. One non-FReeper friend met me there, but soon left saying that to stay would just be 'too painful.' Perhaps I should have followed him out the door.
But, I didn't. And here, to the best of my recollection is what transpired over the next two hours.
MeetUp.com
I had heard about the meeting tonight from an announcement in the local paper and since it was close by, I decided that I wanted to see who supports Wesley Clark and why. There was lots of good news for the ABC (anyonebutclark) people. Ranging from poor planning to poor turnout, the meeting in my estimation was less than successful although they were thrilled with the turnout.
The meeting was in the middle of the restaurant - not in a private room - which didn't allow for them showing a video that they brought. They made reservations for 20 people and had 9 people show up including me. This was there 3rd meeting in this area (Pittsburgh Metropolitan) and they were happy to have 9 people. (Sidebar - at our 2 Toomey meetups thus far, we have had 20 & 22 people). The people themselves were very friendly. There was a teacher, 2 lawyers, an HR manager, a retired chemist, and 2 or 3 homemakers among them.
When we introduced ourselves, they all were ecstatic about being able to vote for Clark. I, in the interest of (almost) full disclosure, told them that I wasn't committed to any candidate yet and wanted to see why Clark was their choice. I didn't go into more detail at that point. They were happy to have an opportunity to try to 'convert' me. Little did they know they my agenda was to highjack the meeting and to see if it was possible to convert them.
One man who was pretty serious about the whole thing kept trying to get them to move into talking about the tactics, strategy, and logistics of campaigning. I kept asking questions and moving them away from anything substantial.
They all thought that Clark was extremely intelligent and getting better at his responses. D'uh. He's had a lifetime and two months. Thrilled at doing so well on the Letterman Show, I deflated that balloon by telling that Letterman never asks hard questions.
They talked of the last two debates and were pleased that the 9 dwarves are not attacking each other, but going after Bush. I countered that they haven't distinquished themselves yet either or shown enough difference between them to make a decision. That's why I had such a hard time trying to decide between them .
I was asked if I would vote for Bush if I couldn't find an acceptable democrat or if I would sit out. My reply was that if I found none of them acceptable, I might vote 3rd party. They cringed at that, remembering the 2000 Florida election where Nader cost algore the race. (Except when Bush stole it) When the serious guy told me that sitting out or voting 3rd party was ineffective and tandamount to voting for the incumbent, I replied that my vote was too important to cast for someone or something that I didn't believe in. That warmed the cockles of their heart even if the didn't get me to say that I'd vote for anyone to get rid of Bush.
That was their main focus. I asked who their 2nd choice would be if Clark was no longer in the race. Almost in unison, the answer was ANY ONE just to get rid of Bush. They really hate the man. Many of you know that I have not been his biggest fan, but their hatred is almost pathological in it's intensity.
When they started to attack Bush on Iraq and repeated all of the talking points of the DNC, I couldn't take it any longer. I raised my voice and told them that I voted reluctantly for Bush because I couldn't stand algore and although I wasn't pleased with a lot of Bush's policies, he was, and is right on Iraq and the overseas WoT.
The one lady lawyer started with Bush stealing the election. I stopped her immediately and told her to read up on the Electoral College and she would understand how our system works. Besides, none of the recounts showed algore won. I think that I really took them by surprise, because I was quite adamant.
They started on our soldiers dying for Bush and oil and Halliburton, yada, yada, yada. I responded that the war was just and it was the right thing to do. They shut up pretty quick when I told them (it's true) that my God-child's husband was just killed there last month.
My work was almost done. One couple got up to leave and then everyone did. They never showed the video that they brought. They gave it to me in the hopes of winning me over. I left without blowing my cover. I must be a better actor than I thought.
In conclusion, I doubt that, without lobotomies, there is any hope of converting any of these people. They really believe the democrat crap. I was treated courteously throughout and although I wasn't totally honest with them, I tried not to outright lie either. I am unsure of who gets my vote next November.
One bright spot, when I mentioned Hillary, there was almost a spontaneous expression of hope that she would just go away. As a candidate, they all thought that she had too many negatives and drew the most intense reactions and that she could sink the democrats chances of taking back the White House.
I hate Big Stupid Republican Government and their overdrive spending and vote-buying scams. Who needs this crap?
You said it correctly: why waste my vote supporting someone whose policies I adamently oppose? Like a total lack of restraint on Big Stupid Republican Government - whatever happened to "limited government", anyway? He won't even veto the most outrageous assaults on the First Amendment or on our wallets.
I guess even bigger govt. Hillary/Ted Kennedy crap is more to your liking.
Look it comes down to two chocies. I voted for GHWB in 92 and never have voted for a third party in a Presidential election. I have a clear conscious and can roghtly criticize the horrible 8 years of Clinton.
Oh BTW, I guess you would like Kyoto, the international court also. The medicare bill has the seeds of privatization and Newt has endorsed it.
When you reach your destination called "perfect political world" send me a post card would ya.
JMO, but any vote that you do not give to Bush is a vote to Clark/Dean/and the other dwarves. This election is to important to give the reigns of foreign policy to one of the dwarves.
If one of them wins, it's back to the Clinton days, where bombings and other terrorist actions will be excused instead of trying to kill the terrorist leviathan once and for all.
If we ever expect the GOP to again respect those rights, we must treat them like the self gratifying children that they are. Punish them. Spank them. Vote them out of office. If we allow them to behave as dems and treat us the dems would, we will never get their attention or respect.
Yep vote them out only to let Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinstein gain more power. Real good strategery there. Sometimes I think you "Molon Labe" guys are their best friends. Look the AWB ban probably won't even make it through the House, but if you base your vote on one issue, so be it. Just remember that GW Bush did sign a CCW bill in Texas, something Ann Richards wouldn't do.
"As a candidate, they all thought that she had too many negatives and drew the most intense reactions and that she could sink the democrats chances of taking back the White House."
Hey Ray beat your chest all you want, you will get plenty of huzzahs on FR, but you will get whispers of "gun nut" by the people you met last night at the Clark meeting and probably 90% of people you meet out on the street.
Sorry to say but your rhetoric turns off people. Instead of repeating the mantra of "Enemies, Foreign, and Domestic" 1,000 times in peoples faces, how about trying to explain why the AWB ban is wrong. I know that isn't as sexy to you as shouting, "All enemies, foreign and domestic", but you may change minds using the soft sell, instead of the hard sell.
No, it's you guys who have been so willing to compromise because you were afraid of what was to come next, who are their best friends. You are buying their rhetoric about taking a principled stand on anything.
A one issue voter? You betcha. Freedom is my issue and freedom cannot be defended by words alone.
If Bush or any other president signs the extension and renewal that is working it's way through the House right now (I know it's only in the early stages), I become an instant felon. And I ain't turning NOTHING in to them bastards.
When the older gentleman asked me about who I would vote for, I thought that he had me figured out. Then when I got real pissed, I *knew* that I had blown it. But, I guess that it proves that I wasn't dealing with rocket scientists cause they never 'got it'.
Huh? All I am saying is that it is better to have Bush running the show than Schumer/Feinstein.
Whatever Ray, sorry to say with your rhetoric you turn off people and don't gain sympathy within the general populace. Look people are for people owning firearms, but aren't to keen to people having automatic machine guns etc.etc. There is a delicate balance, those are the facts. That is the reality and I find your rhetoric of chucking out a political party you may agree with 50% for one you agree may agree with 10% somewhat perplexing.
prisoner6
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