Posted on 12/01/2003 11:19:05 PM PST by Badray
Tonight was different than most of my evenings. I've spend many evenings involved in political discussions, but this one was at a (Wesley) Clark for President meetup. I was in the belly of the beast. One non-FReeper friend met me there, but soon left saying that to stay would just be 'too painful.' Perhaps I should have followed him out the door.
But, I didn't. And here, to the best of my recollection is what transpired over the next two hours.
MeetUp.com
I had heard about the meeting tonight from an announcement in the local paper and since it was close by, I decided that I wanted to see who supports Wesley Clark and why. There was lots of good news for the ABC (anyonebutclark) people. Ranging from poor planning to poor turnout, the meeting in my estimation was less than successful although they were thrilled with the turnout.
The meeting was in the middle of the restaurant - not in a private room - which didn't allow for them showing a video that they brought. They made reservations for 20 people and had 9 people show up including me. This was there 3rd meeting in this area (Pittsburgh Metropolitan) and they were happy to have 9 people. (Sidebar - at our 2 Toomey meetups thus far, we have had 20 & 22 people). The people themselves were very friendly. There was a teacher, 2 lawyers, an HR manager, a retired chemist, and 2 or 3 homemakers among them.
When we introduced ourselves, they all were ecstatic about being able to vote for Clark. I, in the interest of (almost) full disclosure, told them that I wasn't committed to any candidate yet and wanted to see why Clark was their choice. I didn't go into more detail at that point. They were happy to have an opportunity to try to 'convert' me. Little did they know they my agenda was to highjack the meeting and to see if it was possible to convert them.
One man who was pretty serious about the whole thing kept trying to get them to move into talking about the tactics, strategy, and logistics of campaigning. I kept asking questions and moving them away from anything substantial.
They all thought that Clark was extremely intelligent and getting better at his responses. D'uh. He's had a lifetime and two months. Thrilled at doing so well on the Letterman Show, I deflated that balloon by telling that Letterman never asks hard questions.
They talked of the last two debates and were pleased that the 9 dwarves are not attacking each other, but going after Bush. I countered that they haven't distinquished themselves yet either or shown enough difference between them to make a decision. That's why I had such a hard time trying to decide between them .
I was asked if I would vote for Bush if I couldn't find an acceptable democrat or if I would sit out. My reply was that if I found none of them acceptable, I might vote 3rd party. They cringed at that, remembering the 2000 Florida election where Nader cost algore the race. (Except when Bush stole it) When the serious guy told me that sitting out or voting 3rd party was ineffective and tandamount to voting for the incumbent, I replied that my vote was too important to cast for someone or something that I didn't believe in. That warmed the cockles of their heart even if the didn't get me to say that I'd vote for anyone to get rid of Bush.
That was their main focus. I asked who their 2nd choice would be if Clark was no longer in the race. Almost in unison, the answer was ANY ONE just to get rid of Bush. They really hate the man. Many of you know that I have not been his biggest fan, but their hatred is almost pathological in it's intensity.
When they started to attack Bush on Iraq and repeated all of the talking points of the DNC, I couldn't take it any longer. I raised my voice and told them that I voted reluctantly for Bush because I couldn't stand algore and although I wasn't pleased with a lot of Bush's policies, he was, and is right on Iraq and the overseas WoT.
The one lady lawyer started with Bush stealing the election. I stopped her immediately and told her to read up on the Electoral College and she would understand how our system works. Besides, none of the recounts showed algore won. I think that I really took them by surprise, because I was quite adamant.
They started on our soldiers dying for Bush and oil and Halliburton, yada, yada, yada. I responded that the war was just and it was the right thing to do. They shut up pretty quick when I told them (it's true) that my God-child's husband was just killed there last month.
My work was almost done. One couple got up to leave and then everyone did. They never showed the video that they brought. They gave it to me in the hopes of winning me over. I left without blowing my cover. I must be a better actor than I thought.
In conclusion, I doubt that, without lobotomies, there is any hope of converting any of these people. They really believe the democrat crap. I was treated courteously throughout and although I wasn't totally honest with them, I tried not to outright lie either. I am unsure of who gets my vote next November.
One bright spot, when I mentioned Hillary, there was almost a spontaneous expression of hope that she would just go away. As a candidate, they all thought that she had too many negatives and drew the most intense reactions and that she could sink the democrats chances of taking back the White House.
Thanks, but I'm sure that you could. You're smarter than they are - that's evident since you're posting here - and it is fun. You just have to hold back enough to let the fun continue for a while.
That was it precisely. Too funny.
It could be very dangerous. Being surrounded by all of the brainpower and charm that they libs have, our valiant FReepers might get converted to the dark side. Yeah, right.
If you aren't ready, willing and able to stand for our inalienable rights, then they aren't really principles. They are just guideposts to let you see how far you're sinking into the morass of totalitarianism while telling yourself that you're doing the right thing.
Welcome to FR.
Clinton, if not the worst president ever, was at least the worst man ever to be president. My (our) anger, disgust, and yes, hatred for him was for specific and deliberate acts of personal misconduct and crimes. He trampled on the Constitution and the law. He believed himself to be above the law. He took campaign contributions from the Communist Chinese in exchange for missle technology. He should have been tried for treason. Yes, there was hatred for Clinton and good reasons for it.
Now tell me what Bush has done to merit their hatred. They don't like his policies because they believe that he is a right wing zealot. Guess what? My anger, but not hatred, stems from him being way too far to the left for my tastes.
Their hatred doesn't even make sense. He has given them more of what they want and they don't even know it.
EXACTLY!
Always sound advice.
Don't get too excited yet. If she gets 'drafted' at the Convention, they'd vote for her. Especially if she signs on as VP and can maintain a low profile. Sorry.
Now THAT would have blown my cover. LOL
I'm taking it as surprising and relatively good, but I won't count her out yet. She wants it too bad to be counted out.
If I had put my 45 on the table, I'll bet that I could have caused at least one heart attack and many hissy fits. But killing them wouldn't have been sporting.
And most of all, "The truth shall set you free."
Drugs. Lots and lots of drugs. ;-)
That was quick and you made it seem easy. Have you been thinking this through already?
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