Posted on 12/01/2003 11:19:05 PM PST by Badray
Tonight was different than most of my evenings. I've spend many evenings involved in political discussions, but this one was at a (Wesley) Clark for President meetup. I was in the belly of the beast. One non-FReeper friend met me there, but soon left saying that to stay would just be 'too painful.' Perhaps I should have followed him out the door.
But, I didn't. And here, to the best of my recollection is what transpired over the next two hours.
MeetUp.com
I had heard about the meeting tonight from an announcement in the local paper and since it was close by, I decided that I wanted to see who supports Wesley Clark and why. There was lots of good news for the ABC (anyonebutclark) people. Ranging from poor planning to poor turnout, the meeting in my estimation was less than successful although they were thrilled with the turnout.
The meeting was in the middle of the restaurant - not in a private room - which didn't allow for them showing a video that they brought. They made reservations for 20 people and had 9 people show up including me. This was there 3rd meeting in this area (Pittsburgh Metropolitan) and they were happy to have 9 people. (Sidebar - at our 2 Toomey meetups thus far, we have had 20 & 22 people). The people themselves were very friendly. There was a teacher, 2 lawyers, an HR manager, a retired chemist, and 2 or 3 homemakers among them.
When we introduced ourselves, they all were ecstatic about being able to vote for Clark. I, in the interest of (almost) full disclosure, told them that I wasn't committed to any candidate yet and wanted to see why Clark was their choice. I didn't go into more detail at that point. They were happy to have an opportunity to try to 'convert' me. Little did they know they my agenda was to highjack the meeting and to see if it was possible to convert them.
One man who was pretty serious about the whole thing kept trying to get them to move into talking about the tactics, strategy, and logistics of campaigning. I kept asking questions and moving them away from anything substantial.
They all thought that Clark was extremely intelligent and getting better at his responses. D'uh. He's had a lifetime and two months. Thrilled at doing so well on the Letterman Show, I deflated that balloon by telling that Letterman never asks hard questions.
They talked of the last two debates and were pleased that the 9 dwarves are not attacking each other, but going after Bush. I countered that they haven't distinquished themselves yet either or shown enough difference between them to make a decision. That's why I had such a hard time trying to decide between them .
I was asked if I would vote for Bush if I couldn't find an acceptable democrat or if I would sit out. My reply was that if I found none of them acceptable, I might vote 3rd party. They cringed at that, remembering the 2000 Florida election where Nader cost algore the race. (Except when Bush stole it) When the serious guy told me that sitting out or voting 3rd party was ineffective and tandamount to voting for the incumbent, I replied that my vote was too important to cast for someone or something that I didn't believe in. That warmed the cockles of their heart even if the didn't get me to say that I'd vote for anyone to get rid of Bush.
That was their main focus. I asked who their 2nd choice would be if Clark was no longer in the race. Almost in unison, the answer was ANY ONE just to get rid of Bush. They really hate the man. Many of you know that I have not been his biggest fan, but their hatred is almost pathological in it's intensity.
When they started to attack Bush on Iraq and repeated all of the talking points of the DNC, I couldn't take it any longer. I raised my voice and told them that I voted reluctantly for Bush because I couldn't stand algore and although I wasn't pleased with a lot of Bush's policies, he was, and is right on Iraq and the overseas WoT.
The one lady lawyer started with Bush stealing the election. I stopped her immediately and told her to read up on the Electoral College and she would understand how our system works. Besides, none of the recounts showed algore won. I think that I really took them by surprise, because I was quite adamant.
They started on our soldiers dying for Bush and oil and Halliburton, yada, yada, yada. I responded that the war was just and it was the right thing to do. They shut up pretty quick when I told them (it's true) that my God-child's husband was just killed there last month.
My work was almost done. One couple got up to leave and then everyone did. They never showed the video that they brought. They gave it to me in the hopes of winning me over. I left without blowing my cover. I must be a better actor than I thought.
In conclusion, I doubt that, without lobotomies, there is any hope of converting any of these people. They really believe the democrat crap. I was treated courteously throughout and although I wasn't totally honest with them, I tried not to outright lie either. I am unsure of who gets my vote next November.
One bright spot, when I mentioned Hillary, there was almost a spontaneous expression of hope that she would just go away. As a candidate, they all thought that she had too many negatives and drew the most intense reactions and that she could sink the democrats chances of taking back the White House.
We are blessed in this nation to have such angels amongst us, willing to sacrifice their all on behalf of truth and liberty."
Thank you.
You are trying to tell me that reality in this arguement is a misrepresentation...and that is something that cannot be and something I will not accept. You should be ashamed of yourself for accepting it IMHO. Reality is reality, Dane. It is up to us to ensure that folks understand that.
From my perspective, on this issue you are argueing like a liberal Democrat, Dane, and it does not reflect well on you IMHO.
But, as I said before, refer back to the last sentence of post 122.
They'll scream YES!
Then point out history proved them completely wrong last time and that it will likely do so again..."
Great point. Why didn't you send me this yesterday afternoon BEFORE I went to meet them? ;-)
Amen. Those who are truly open and sincere...even if they are on the oppositie side...will think and reflect and perhaps modify their position based on facts and true information.
Those who are not will just get more and more shrill and reject light and truth at every turn. Truth is like a great sifter or thresher and the way people react to it sets people to one side or the other, and lets us know where to spend our time cultivating those hearts and minds.
Best regards, you have Fremail.
Wasn't he appointed?
I'm still waiting for them. You promised, but never sent them. What are you? A democrat? LOL
"You should read up on the Delphi techniques if you are going to co-opt meetings. You did well but there are certain tips and pointers you can employ."
Thanks, but next time tell me this BEFORE I decide to do something like this. What are the Delphi techniques?
Thanks again, Jeff. If you're on my side, I know that I can't be wrong.
I am going to try to watch it and see what they find so compelling. If I get some real good points about him, I may just go back and challenge them even more. Unless they are reading FR, I think my cover is still in tact.
LOL They sure did. That was a central theme until I asked who their 2nd choice was and they said Dean or anyone else electable to beat Bush.
I like your approach about Dean's 2nd Amendment postitions. I'd love to have seen the look on their faces.
That is outstanding. These people were pretty much against Sharpton and I was surprised that they knew about the Tawanda Brawley incident.
"PS...Did they eat junk food, pay for it with food stamps, and smell bad?"
No, not at all. These were professional people living in a mostly Republican and well to do areas. Not all of them had dinner, but those that did, paid in cash or credit card (the attorney/organizer).
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