Morford: The Love That Killed America (Bible-clutching homophobes recoil, violently to gay marriage)

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | Wednesday, November 19, 2003 | Mark Morford, Always a Bridesmaid

[presidio9]

The gays are marching in. The end is near. Sheer unadulterated evil and scary anal sex and superlative hair products and new blasts of fresh happy love are to be unleashed anew upon the country. Horror is nigh. Everyone into the bunker.

[ArGee]

Can you cite historical precedence? What are the gay civilizations of which you speak?

I didn't say "gay civilizations" I said the civilizations that embraced homosexuality. I don't have a lot of references here, but Rome and Greece come to mind.

Yes, there was a lot wrong with those civilizations other than homosexuality. Homosexuality wasn't the cause of the failure, it was the last evidence that the civilization was doomed.

The cause was narcissism, of which homosexuality is the ultimate expression.

Shalom.

[longtermmemmory]

You are wrong. Legally it is all about children. One particular example does not affect the stucture of society. Marriage is a unit of reprocution and raising children. period.

The couples that do not have children by choice or medical are irrelevant to the family unite society defines. Homosexuality is still only a sexual behavior. It is a fetish. Bondage people do not get special rights for their sexual behavior. Swingers do not get special rights for their sexual behavior.

In light of the supreme court, the government is not in the business of sanctioning how you get your particular orgasm, fetish or otherwise.

Even a childless couple reinforces the Man/father and Woman/mother paradign. Homosexual fetishists do not.

[ArGee]

I said it is one that the government has no business putting it's hand in.

And I disagreed. The government has a responsibility to sustain our society.

Marriages aren't regulated by the fed, so the U.S. constitution is a non-starter.

Shalom.

[Truth Table]

1. I am not saying that you cannot fight, I am telling you that without tax revenues, our government as is, cannot function. So fight on, I am just saying that as a matter of practicality you will not win because marrige is part of those revenues.

2. Read any history book. Look at any sucessful society and the governments of those societies. I bet that they all had some form of marriage that the government recoginzed.

Both of my statements may be redicilous but that does not make them false.

...And I just backed them up with both fact and reasoning.

[ArGee]

I presume by now you've read my posts #42 and #50. If not, they are my answer to your question.

No institution so thoroughly requires the members to understand love, honor, duty, and sacrifice quite the way heterosexual marriage does. Without that, no society can stand.

Shalom.

[Truth Table]

You get it.

[ArGee]

The debate between the rational human beings and the bible-thumpers is whether or not gay marriage should be allowed under our current system of laws

No prejudice indicated there.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Yah, come on! Rome only lasted, what-- 500 years?! If it weren't for those gays they would've been around 10,000!

Alright, I know you're a bigot and your mind is closed, but why do you raise an issue I already answered in the post to which you responded?

You probably consider yourself one of the rational people in this debate. Why don't you act like it.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

You get it.

In about another month I will have gotten it for 22 years.

Not that my wife isn't a wonderful woman. It's she who has demonstrated those characteristics in learning to live with me.

Shalom.

[longtermmemmory]

The notion of rampant homosexuality in ancient greece is vastly exagerated. Having studied in Greece, I can tell you the scholars who study ancient greece every day put the blame on the misperception squarely on homosexuals in american universities.

The ancient greeks also considered homosexuality a choice. Not discussed much is it. Homosexual accusations of conquored people's leaders was used to deny the existence of heirs to the throne. (he could not have sons, he was a soddomite.) The ancients also distigushed between the pitcher and reciever. Homosexuals were considered deviants from the normal behavior. But whatever, I am certain some homosexual activists in a san francisco bathhouse is more knoledgable than an archiologist working with ancient texts on a daily basis.

[Truth Table]

And why does that have to be the paradigm rationally? Obviously a childless couple are not father and mother. They are just man and woman. Why is that critical?

A 25 year old brother and sister want to marry. They become steril to insure they do not have children. Why not let them marry?

Like it or not, governments reflects mores of the society. Some of those mores are worth preserving and recogizing if society is to continue. Simple as that.

[ArGee]

I will defer, but IIRC, Ancient Greece was not really a single culture.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

If you had read what I wrote instead of intentionally twisting it you would have your answer.

It has not been nice talking with you.

Shalom.

[longtermmemmory]

just a recent FYI:

The greek network was Megatv

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3265341.stm

A Greek television station has been fined 100,000 euros (£69,390) for showing two men kissing.