Posted on 11/18/2003 2:27:45 PM PST by cgk
| ‘Scarborough Country’ for Nov. 17 |
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| Read the complete transcript to Monday’s show |
| Guests: Rebecca Hagelin, Bo Dietl, Jesse Jackson, Curtis Sliwa (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST (voice-over): Rush is back. And he’s not pulling any punches. RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: A memo to you liberals. The party is over. I’m back. SCARBOROUGH: Limbaugh takes on critics who thought rehab would ruin him. LIMBAUGH: Five weeks in rehab is not going to make me an idiot. SCARBOROUGH: The king of talk radio assures his audience he’s at the top of his game. LIMBAUGH: Many people feel and think that, when you go to a rehabilitation center for addictions or other things, that the people in there turn you into a linguine-spined liberal. And that’s not true. SCARBOROUGH: But questions remain. How will Rush’s battle with addiction affect his radio empire? And will he be hit with criminal charges? We’ll take your phone calls on Rush’s return. (END VIDEOTAPE) SCARBOROUGH: You’re about to enter SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. No passport required. No Rush-bashing allowed. Hey, welcome to the show. I’m Joe Scarborough. Now, as you know, Rush is back and he’s raring to go. With me to talk about his return is the Reverend Jesse Jackson. He’s the president and the founder of the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition. We have Curtis Sliwa, WABC Radio talk show host and the head of the Guardian Angels, Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz. We have Rebecca Hagelin from the Heritage Foundation. Her column on Rush is on WorldNetDaily.com. And Bo Dietl, private investigator and drug-trafficking expert. Let’s first take a listen to some of what Rush said earlier today. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, “THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW) LIMBAUGH: The problem with liberals is, they don’t like themselves. When you get right down to it, if they don’t like themselves, they’re not going to like us. And you can tell watching these people. Are they happy? Do you ever see liberals smile about anything? When there’s good news, aren’t liberals miserable? It hasn’t changed since I’ve been gone and since I’ve gotten back. What’s good for the country is still bad for them. What’s bad for the country, good for them. (END AUDIO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: Rush Limbaugh certainly sounds like he’s already in mid-season form. Curtis, what do you think about Rush returning to the air after five weeks in rehab? CURTIS SLIWA, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I’ve known Rush for 12 years, having broadcast with him in the same facilities of WABC. And it’s obvious. He said, first off, I’m no victim. I’m no role model. I’m no hero. I have only myself to blame. I went through the rehab. I tried to dry myself out personally twice. It didn’t work. But now I’m back into the swim of things. And he spoke of the 12-step program that he’s involved in and then started getting back in to dealing with the issues, like Ted Kennedy, who referred to the judicial candidates as Neanderthals. And he came went rocking and socking right at them, in terms of his political commentary. SCARBOROUGH: Jesse Jackson, what did you make of Rush Limbaugh’s return after five weeks in rehab? JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: Well, first of all, Rush has a serious affliction. His addiction is very real. He broke the law. And those who sold him the drugs, they broke the law. And their source broke the law. So, either the law will change and he will be set free on the road to rehabilitation or he must go the way of those who have broken the law. I hope that a luminary such as Rush Limbaugh on a nonviolent drug charge would get rehabilitation, as opposed to going to jail. But unless the law changes, he, too, must go to jail. Olympic athletes, if they break this drug law, they lose their gold medal. And they cannot run. And so, whatever he does, at this point, Rush Limbaugh, like all others, must honor the law. SCARBOROUGH: Allan Dershowitz, what’s your take on what the reverend said and also on Rush Limbaugh’s return today? ALAN DERSHOWITZ, AUTHOR, “THE CASE FOR ISRAEL”: Well, first, I have personal sympathy for any person who is afflicted with an illness. And he is. And I think it’s different to become addicted as a result of back surgery and to go out on the street to try to get high. I think they are different kinds of crimes. But I do think we have to have a single standard of justice. My strong preference would be not to prosecute Rush Limbaugh. I don’t believe in celebrity prosecution or selective prosecution. But we have to have a single standard. I think a case like this has to make us reassess the way we apply our drug laws unfairly based on class and race and type of drug. And so, I think this is an opportunity for us to think hard about whether there are many other people who suffer, similarly, addiction who we threw away, throw in jail, throw away the key, and whether or not the same kind of rehabilitation shouldn’t be available to them. But my personal sympathies go out to Rush Limbaugh. And I hope he recovers and resumes his career. And I will continue to disagree with virtually everything he says on the merits and demerits of his views. (LAUGHTER) SCARBOROUGH: Well, what did you make of today’s show? He certainly came out swinging early. DERSHOWITZ: Well, I don’t think he makes any sense at all when he says that liberals are happy when the country is doing bad. That’s just nonsense. I’m a liberal and I’m thrilled when things go well for the country. Like everybody else, I’m very upset that we’re losing soldiers in Iraq. I’m very upset that many things are not going well in this country. No liberal I know loves the fact that we’re not doing well. So let’s go back to bashing Rush the way he bashes us. Let’s have a good fight on the merits. I just wish Rush would do one thing. He is unfair. He doesn’t give people an opportunity to respond to personal charges. For example, he spent an hour once bashing me completely. And when I called and asked for a 30-second opportunity to correct the record, his screener says, no, he doesn’t take calls from critical callers, only from favorable callers. Dittoheads, OK. But he’s not a fair talk show host. SCARBOROUGH: Rebecca Hagelin, what do you say? REBECCA HAGELIN, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Well, Rush today was personal and personable. And he brought to the forefront of America a big problem. And that is that a lot of people who suffer from tremendous pain do end up getting hooked on painkillers. And there is a difference, as one of your guests mentioned already, between those who use illegal street drugs and those who are suffering excruciating pain who get addicted to these highly addictive drugs. And our laws have to recognize that. And, indeed, they do. In many states, you will find that people who are addicted to drugs and abuse them because of pain end up going to rehabilitation centers and then they live a full life after that. And my hope and my full confidence in Rush is that he will take this terrible experience and that he’ll use it for good, he’ll help people understand that there is a need for strong narcotics like OxyContin, for those who suffer tremendously, and he’ll make people understand the need to get help when you need help. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Bo Dietl... (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: I’m sorry. Go ahead. JACKSON: The problem with these Draconian laws is, three strikes and you’re out don’t leave room for discernment. Mandatory sentences don’t leave room for discernment. They take power away from the judges. And so, to that extent, I hope Rush Limbaugh does not go to jail. He hopes he does go to jail, because, if he honors the law he has been enforcing, the law he’s been fighting for will put him in jail. If he, in fact, chooses to make some distinctions, there are many people in jail tonight who, in fact, should be free. They were there because of nonviolent drug charges, did not have good lawyers. And they shouldn’t be in jail in the first place. And so I hope that he-his crisis will illuminate just how unfair and how unreasonable these drug laws are. SCARBOROUGH: Well, Bo Dietl, should Rush Limbaugh go to jail? (CROSSTALK) BO DIETL, BEAU DIETL AND ASSOCIATES: Joe, let me tell you something. When I hear these people talking about OxyContin, Vicodin and all that, that they’re not drugs, that’s nonsense. These are more addictive than heroin, than cocaine, than marijuana, anything above. I’m going to tell you something right now. These drugs here, they’re readily available on the Internet. I’ve been doing an investigation for the last six months. And what we found, kids could go online. I put my 9-year-old and my 13-year-old online ordering drugs on line. And they come from Pakistan. They come from all over the world. We have to start to let people realize that these are so addictive. These are as addictive as cocaine. So let’s not make a slight about this here, about OxyContin, about Vicodin, about painkillers. Painkillers are more addictive than anything in the world. And we have to deal with them. And if you’re going to break the law, and you’re going to buy them like you’re buying cocaine or heroin, that’s going to be the same charges. I’m sorry, Rush. That’s illegal. HAGELIN: Hold it. (CROSSTALK) DIETL: Hold nothing. I’m going to tell you something right now. (CROSSTALK) DIETL: Let me finish talking. I’ve been doing an investigation. I have kids that go online in high schools buying OxyContin and Vicodin over the Internet readily, without any prescription. Let’s be real about this thing. This is a drug. This is a controlled substance. This is a DEA drug. We have got to fight this like we fought cocaine and heroin. This is not a make-believe thing because they’re painkillers. When people go on them, they become more addictive than anything. This Medicare bill that is before Congress right now, this has to deal with this. And we all have to deal with this. And we need our congressmen and our senators to vote and pass this Medicare bill, because it has to do with the drug importation. You’re getting drugs now from Pakistan, South Africa, anywhere you want. You’re getting counterfeit drugs. You’re going drugs that are making people addicts. My kid was 9 years old. He ordered Prozac online. It came the next day from Pakistan. And OxyContin and Vicodin, you can order it without a prescription. You get spam every day on your Internet. We have to deal with this. I’ve talked to the DEA about this. You don’t have to go to a drug dealer anymore. You don’t have to go around the block and get that drug dealer and cop your cocaine or your heroin. You go online, you can get anything you want. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Rebecca, respond to that. You were about to respond. HAGELIN: Yes. Nobody’s arguing that there’s not a drug problem in this country, because there is a severe illegal drug problem in this country. But I beg you to walk in the room of somebody who is severely suffering in excruciating pain from an illness like cancer, where they are writhing in pain, and you see that OxyContin and other drugs can be the miracle drug for those people when they are suffering. (CROSSTALK) HAGELIN: Let me finish my say here. We need to bring people to the forefront who are having these addictions. And we need to let them know that there is help available, as well as we need to tighten up the drug laws in this country. Now, you even mentioned the prescription drug bill that’s up right now, which is a complete disaster. It won’t even address this at all. So don’t act like it will. It’s a total and complete disaster. (CROSSTALK) DERSHOWITZ: But you talk about cancer. We have to introduce the fact that this administration and many of Rush Limbaugh’s strongest supporters are opposed to, for example, the medical use of marijuana. There was a referendum in California and several other states which made it lawful for doctors to prescribe pain-easing marijuana. And the federal government has gone after people and just threw somebody in jail, even though he had a contract with the city of Oakland. What we need is a single standard. We can’t have conservatives who just like conservatives who take conservative drugs and liberals who support liberals who take liberal drugs. We have to have a standard which is politics-free, which is race-free, which is class-free. You talk about (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: All right, Alan, everybody else, we are going to have to leave it there for a second. We’ll be right back, though. DIETL: Alan, I agree with you. SCARBOROUGH: Still to come on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, my panel is going to have a lot more to say on the return of Rush. And I’m sure you will, too. We’re going to be taking your calls. Our number is 888-MSNBC-USA. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back.. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, “THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW) LIMBAUGH: I have to admit that I am powerless over this addiction that have. I used to think I could beat it with force of will. I used to think that I would be difficult. But I’m not. I’m just like anybody else who has an addiction. I’m powerless over it. And I have to continue to recognize that and make sure that the things that I’ve learned continue to be practiced. (END AUDIO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Rush Limbaugh is back from rehab, but some say his troubles may not be over. Could he be hit with criminal charges? Our panel weighs in right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. I’m Joe. Now, when Rush returned to the air, he didn’t waste any time pointing out the media’s double standards for conservatives. This is what he said about what some are calling Ted Kennedy’s Trent Lott moment. Take a listen. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, “THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW) SCHWARZENEGGER: So, I see that Ted Kennedy called a bunch of highly respected minorities Neanderthals. The fact that Ted Kennedy is still in the Senate and hasn’t been forced to resign means that nothing’s changed. It’s just a good thing Senator Kennedy didn’t say it on ESPN, or he might have resigned. (END AUDIO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: Jesse Jackson, do you agree with Rush Limbaugh that conservatives are held to a higher standard than Teddy Kennedy? JACKSON: No. Donovan McNabb has not lost a game since Rush Limbaugh left the air. The issue here tonight, Rush Limbaugh did not voluntarily go to rehab. He was caught and he surrendered. He went sent by his lawyer, not sent there by his doctor. The fact is, Rush Limbaugh needs and deserves rehabilitation. And so do others deserve rehabilitation. But according to the law he has supported, if the law is enforced-and there is not a standing for rich and not a standing for poor-the same law that Rush Limbaugh is seeking to be excused from has more than half of those in jail today. I think it’s a bad law. Either we change the bad law or all of us live under the bad law. That point is, one set of rules. SLIWA: Jesse, I would think that you’d want to see the criminal justice system play out in term of what they decide to do with Rush Limbaugh. But just like when people unexpectedly end up with problems-drugs, alcohol-or remember Magic Johnson coming down with AIDS-it shocked us all, maybe through unsafe sex-they then become the spokespersons for the cures. (CROSSTALK) SLIWA: If you listen to Rush Limbaugh today, he talked about what it was like to fight this addiction and to go through his 12-step program. You couldn’t ask for any big mega-guy in all of American broadcasting, God forbid, to have a problem, but then to be able to speak about how (CROSSTALK) SLIWA: ... millions might be able to seek treatment. (CROSSTALK) JACKSON: One does not hear today any remorse. One hears that nothing fundamental has changed. And I would think that, in the face of his crisis, he should have some remorse, have some humility. He could become a spokesman to change a bad law. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Bo, respond. DIETL: Joe, listen to me. Joe, I used to be a homicide detective. I locked people up for cocaine, heroin. To me, there’s no difference between that and OxyContin and Vicodin. It’s one of the most addicting things in the world. If it’s a controlled substance and you’re not supposed to have it without a prescription, it’s the same difference. I can’t believe I’m agreeing with Dershowitz and I’m agreeing with all the liberals right now. This is a real deal. My problem is the kids that go online now and readily available these drugs are there. We’re going to have a whole bunch of kids in high schools and colleges that can go online and they think, oh, it’s only a painkiller. It’s not only a painkiller. These are real serious things. That’s why-and I have to go at that lady that talked against the Medicare bill. The AARP, 40 million senior citizens want to vote for this. You have the American Medical Association wants to vote for this bill. This bill puts safeguards. And with all these drugs coming from all over the world, they want 25 different countries to come in. This knocks them out. We put safeguard. We have got to deal with the Internet right now, where they can go online and get drugs. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Bo, we get you. Bo, we got you on that point. And let’s not debate Medicare. HAGELIN: That’s right. Let’s not debate that. But I do understand the point that you’re making, though, Bo. But I want to go to the phones right now, because we have got a caller from Roswell, New Mexico. His name is Jeff. Jeff, you’re on the air. Go ahead. CALLER: Hi, Joe. I’d like to ask a question to Jesse Jackson, please. JACKSON: Yes. SCARBOROUGH: Go ahead. CALLER: OK. Mr. Jackson, you accused Rush Limbaugh of being a racist with the Donovan McNabb thing. Are you ready to ask for Ted Kennedy’s job right now for what he said about an African-American woman? Thank you very much. (CROSSTALK) JACKSON: Well, I did not accuse Rush of being a racist, but his statement was race-baiting and it was injurious and it was insulting. And it was not accurate. And based upon that, they let him go. But we’re not discussing, really, Rush and his inaccurate analysis of black quarterbacks and McNabb. Now we’re discussing, here is a man who was sick. And in so doing, he broke the law. Should he live above the law or should he live within the law, like other people? That’s a fundamental question that should be answered. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Hold it. SLIWA: Jesse, what about what Ted Kennedy said about the black candidates for higher judicial office? You didn’t answer that. He called them Neanderthals. A white man says to a black woman, you’re a Neanderthal. If that had been a white conservative Republican, you’d be singing “Kumbaya” outside of the United States Supreme Court with other Democrats and liberals, asking that that person to be sacked. JACKSON: Well, he didn’t call her a Neanderthal, but her position that the Bill of Rights, that should not have been applied, was a very Neanderthal position. But to try to make a Ted Kennedy a racist is diversion. Let’s deal with the facts. Here is a man whose stature illuminates a Draconian drug law. Should we apply the law to Rush Limbaugh as it’s applied to others, or should we, in fact, have a new law? What is your choice? You can’t have it both ways. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second. Alan Dershowitz, let me bring you in here, because, obviously, what Rush Limbaugh was talking about earlier today, what our caller has talked about tonight, and what a lot of people are talking about is the fact that Ted Kennedy took to the floor and called minority women Neanderthals, not just on their positions, but said, these people are Neanderthals. Do you think there’s a double standard between what Ted Kennedy can get away with and what Rush Limbaugh can get away with? DERSHOWITZ: I’d like to see the statement. As far as I can tell, what he said was the people who are now up for nomination-and they’re of mixed race. Some are white. Some are black. Some are men and some are women. And they hold positions on the Bill of Rights which are anachronistic. And I’d like to see the statement. I’d like to know whether or not, like Rush Limbaugh, Ted Kennedy-and I doubt he said this-did it on the ground of their race. I think he said that four people, or however many there are, who are being held up by the Senate, have Neanderthal views. They’re not all black. (CROSSTALK) SLIWA: Then you’ll say he was half in the bag when he said it and he was not in full control of his mental faculties. (CROSSTALK) DERSHOWITZ: Don’t put words in my mouth, please. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: One at a time. One at a time. Curtis, respond. Go ahead, Curtis. Respond. SLIWA: I was saying, probably, your next defense of Ted Kennedy will be, well, he was half in the bag. (CROSSTALK) DERSHOWITZ: Don’t put words in my mouth. Don’t say what I’m going to say. Say what you’re going to say. Don’t say what I’m going to say. Please limit yourself to what you say. Don’t say what I’m going to say. (CROSSTALK) DIETL: Joe, we’re leaving the discussion here. DERSHOWITZ: Play the tape. Play the tape. Let’s hear what he said. Then we can talk about it. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Guys, cut them off. Cut them off. Cut them off. Everybody’s wanting to-hold on. Everybody wants to talk at the same time. We can’t all talk at the same time. We’re talking about a double standard that Rush Limbaugh brought up, a double standard that Rush Limbaugh got nailed by before he went into drug rehab on the ESPN comments about Donovan McNabb. Now, this past week, Ted Kennedy made some statements regarding judicial nominees. DERSHOWITZ: What did he say? What did he say? Tell your listeners what he said. Read the text. Read the statement. Don’t make it up. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Alan Dershowitz? DERSHOWITZ: Yes. SCARBOROUGH: Let me talk. DERSHOWITZ: Read the statement. SCARBOROUGH: He said they were Neanderthals. He talked about their positions. He said they were Neanderthals. DERSHOWITZ: Read what he said. I think you’re not telling the truth. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: I am telling the truth. (CROSSTALK) DERSHOWITZ: Read the statement. You have a tape of it. Read the text. Read the statement. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: OK. (CROSSTALK) DERSHOWITZ: Read the statement. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Bo, go ahead, Bo. But don’t talk about the Internet anymore, OK? We got your deal on the Internet, Bo. Move on. (CROSSTALK) DIETL: We started tonight-I started to talk about, I agree with Dershowitz. I agree with Jesse. Jesse has got more skeletons than a haunted house in his life. But we’re not talking about that right now. We’re talking about an issue right now. We’re talking about Ted Kennedy. We’re talking about two different sides of justice. If I say something like that-Mark Fuhrman-I used to be a homicide detective. If I used that N-word, I would say, maybe in anger, I did use it. He lied about it. We have two types of justice here. We have liberal justice and we’ve got conservative justice. We’re talking about someone taking pills that are illegal. If you’re committing a crime-I don’t care if you’re a Republican, conservative, liberal, Democrat-you commit a crime, you should be prosecuted. And that’s the end of the deal. We can’t let this out to our children that OxyContin and Vicodin are OK, but you can’t use heroin and cocaine. Let’s be real. And I agree with you, Jesse, on this. And I can’t believe I’m agreeing with you and I’m agreeing with Dershowitz on that. As far as Ted Kennedy, what he says, if he said that, that is completely wrong. He’s a professional person. And if anybody else said that, it would be wrong. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: OK. Listen, we’ll get back to all of you. Don’t go away, because we have got much more on Rush Limbaugh’s return to the golden mike. But first, let’s take a look at the latest headlines on MSNBC. (NEWS BREAK) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back to an exciting show. I’m Joe Scarborough. We’ve got an all-star panel and they’re throwing around some all-star insults. Jesse Jackson was personally attacked last segment, as was I, called a liar. But let’s start with Reverend Jackson. Reverend Jackson... JACKSON: Joe... SCARBOROUGH: ... would you care to-would you care to respond? JACKSON: Yes. My point is, let’s focus on tonight’s subject. We’re not discussing Ted Kennedy. We’re not discussing President Bush tonight. We’re discussing Rush Limbaugh. If an American general who had been injured in the war and experienced trauma from looking at the horror of war, if that general were buying excessive amounts of this illegal drug, would he keep his post? Would the supplier keep his post? An American athlete who won a gold medal, he or she, could they keep their medal? Here’s the case of Rush Limbaugh. He has bought excessive amounts of an illegal substance. Will he be able to stand for rehab about prosecution or be prosecuted? I hope, because it would change the law, and he’ll face rehabilitation. But if the law remains the same, he’ll face prosecution as other Americans do. SCARBOROUGH: All right. And I want to move on to one other quick point. It’s a point that Rush Limbaugh was making about Teddy Kennedy earlier. I had said that Teddy Kennedy attacked the president’s people as Neanderthals. I want to read the exact statement that Teddy Kennedy made during the marathon filibuster last week. And he said this, quote, “What has not ended is resolution and determination of members of the U.S. Senate to continue to resist any Neanderthal that is nominated by this president of the United States for any court.” There it is, Alan Dershowitz. DERSHOWITZ: Absolutely what I said. That’s absolutely what I said. SCARBOROUGH: That’s not what you said. DERSHOWITZ: He didn’t focus on the race of anybody. He didn’t say only the African-Americans were Neanderthals. He said that anybody who was a Neanderthal will not be approved by the Senate. That is very, very different. SCARBOROUGH: OK. Rebecca, respond. HAGELIN: Wait a minute. You got to let the girl have a chance to talk here, guys. SCARBOROUGH: Rebecca hasn’t talked in 30 minutes. Go ahead, Rebecca. HAGELIN: Thank you very much. By the way, before the commercial break, it sounded like a classic cat fight, and I’m waiting for one of you guys to take off your four-inch heels and clunk the other one on the head. But having said that, getting back to your question about are conservatives held to a higher standard. And indeed, they are. All Rush Limbaugh had to do was mention the word “black” and have people all of a sudden go after his throat. DIETL: That’s nonsense. HAGELIN: He was pointing at racism. DIETL: That’s a lie. HAGELIN: He was pointing at racism in the league, and we all know that Teddy Kennedy always gets away with a lot. And the whole point is, number three, number three, getting back to the issue at hand, the issue at hand is the drug abuse, the use of painkillers that people become addicted to. I have to say one thing before we move on, and that is I want to speak to the audience members out there right now who are suffering from uncontrollable pain. There’s a book called “Power over Pain” that you have to get. Poweroverpain.com can help you overcome your problem. DIETL: Joe, Joe, I don’t want my kids to think if they take a Vicodin or OxyContin that they’re not addicted to something. These are the most addictive... (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second, Bo, hold on. Hold on a second. Do you think Rush Limbaugh or anybody is sending the signal that kids who are taking Vicodin are... DIETL: Yes, yes. SCARBOROUGH: Hold on, Bo, buddy. Let me finish the question. DIETL: Go ahead. SCARBOROUGH: Do you think Rush Limbaugh or anybody here is sending the message that if your child takes Vicodin, or if your child takes OxyContin, they’re not going to get addicted? I think almost Rush Limbaugh has taught us all the exact opposite. DIETL: My point is I don’t want them to think it’s simplified because they’re painkillers like this woman from this Heritage Foundation. These are the most... HAGELIN: Wrong. DIETL: Let me finish, young lady. I picked up bodies in New York for people who overdosed. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Stay in Washington. Stay in the Heritage Foundation. But people taking drugs are as addictive as heroin and as cocaine. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: All right. Speaking of cat fights, speaking of cat fights, let’s move on. DIETL: Young lady, you don’t know what you’re talking about. SCARBOROUGH: Guys, cut off the mikes off real quick. Hold on. Cut off their mikes. Hey, hey, Rob, can you cut off their mikes? OK, we’re going to go to the phones right now. We’ve got Amy from Detroit. Amy, we’ve stopped the chatter. Go ahead. CALLER: I’d like to just ask a question. If somebody is doing drugs ” legal or illegal-and if it makes them a better person, it makes them to be able to do their job a lot better, what is wrong with that? DIETL: You’re stoned. SCARBOROUGH: Alan, go ahead. DERSHOWITZ: Well, I think it’s against the law is the first thing, and we have to abide by the law. Whatever the laws are, you change the law. CALLER: No, no, I said legal or illegal. DERSHOWITZ: Well, let’s talk about the difference. Legal and illegal is very different. People are allowed to take legal drugs like cigarettes and alcohol, and they’re not allowed to take marijuana. He first thing you do is you obey... CALLER: Rush Limbaugh is drugs that he’s taking are legal. DERSHOWITZ: No, they’re not legal if they’re not prescribed. They’re not legal if they’re prescribed. If they’re not prescribed, and if he got them in an alleyway from somebody you worked for and paid under the table, would you say the same thing about a cocaine or heroin addict? SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second, ma’am. Are you saying if somebody- OK. The point you seem to be making was that if they make you feel better, if OxyContin makes you feel better, you ought to be able to take it. Let me ask, does anybody-Curtis Sliwa, do you or does anybody on this panel agree with that feeling? SLIWA: No. But I think what will take place-and I can’t speak for Rush Limbaugh. One of his heroes is William F. Buckley, as you know, who’s a libertarian when it comes to drugs, decriminalization and allowing people to have their use of drugs, particularly if they’re functional. So who knows what direction Rush will go now that he has completed his rehab in the clinic and obviously has to stay on the straight and narrow path. That’s why we have to listen and see if there’s a change of his personal point of view because of his own dilemma. SCARBOROUGH: Jessie asked a question. JACKSON: Rush did not go to rehab because of his view of black quarterbacks. That’s not the issue tonight. Do you believe that the laws to prosecute nonviolent drug offenders should apply to Rush as it does to other people? SLIWA: Well, I think at this particular point, we’re still in limbo on that. He might well be prosecuted and face criminal charges. DIETL: Joe, can they be quiet, Joe? May I say an answer. I have a friend that did 17 years in jail for selling three ounces of cocaine, 17 years under the Rockefeller law. He’s just being released now. Never was arrested before. That was the law of the land. Now, we have a lot of minorities who are in jail for selling cocaine and doing cocaine. They’re in jail. This should not be a double standard. I got to agree with Jesse and Dershowitz on this. If the law of the land is that you have to... SLIWA: Bo, Bo, excuse me. DIETL: I’m sorry. You buy drugs, you buy drugs. I don’t care if they’re painkillers or not. SLIWA: Excuse me, Bo. Let me correct you on something. (CROSSTALK) SLIWA: Wait a minute. There are many in our field of broadcasting who have had drug and alcohol problems. DIETL: So is that right? SLIWA: And drug problems. DIETL: Is that right? SLIWA: Imus broadcasts in the morning here and had a cocaine problem. DIETL: Don’t talk against Imus. SLIWA: Excuse me. He never got locked up. Youre Kumbati (ph) chief with him side by side. DIETL: Should he have went to jail? If he had cocaine in one of those joints and he was dealing that, he should have went to jail, too. SLIWA: But he did it. DIETL: And he’d be the first one to say that. SLIWA: It was illegal. And, obviously, you view that a little differently as we all do with people who are close to us. DIETL: I have not done drugs. Curtis. I am anti-drug for the fact that I don’t want my kids to think that taking a Vicodin or taking an OxyContin is not taking drugs, that these aren’t addictive drugs. SLIWA: Nobody is disagreeing with you on that. DIETL: This woman here in... (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: All right. As the voices rise, we’re going to have to go to a quick break. But we’re going to be right back with our panel of experts, and we’re going to take more of your phone calls. The number here is 888-MSNBC-USA. Stick around. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I came to realize a number of things while I was away, and at the top of the list is how much I love all of you, how much I appreciate all of you, and how much this and other aspects of my life mean to me. (END VIDEO CLIP) SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back to the show. I’m Joe Scarborough. Now, Rush’s critics say he needs to take it down a notch. The guy needs to be more compassionate, et cetera, et cetera. But have those same people been understanding and compassionate of Rush himself? This is what Al Franken said today, quote: “My hope is that he’ll demand to be given the maximum sentence at the most dangerous part of prison, hopefully, with an African-American cell mate who has heard is Donovan McNabb comments on ESPN.” And, of course, liberal columnist Eric Alterman said, quote: “I wish the guy would have gone deaf. I shouldn’t say that, but on behalf of the country, we would be better off without Rush Limbaugh and his 20 million listeners.” Rebecca, are the liberals the intolerant ones in this Rush Limbaugh story? HAGELIN: Well, that entire statement is just sour grapes over the fact that conservatives own talk radio and that Americans have found that talk radio reflects their views greater than the big three networks. That’s just sour grapes. It has nothing to do with Rush’s problem at all. Let me say something to Bo Dietl here. Listen, Bo Dietl-I’m sorry, I’m sorry. Bo Dietl, listen. You and I agree that if kids are buying drugs off of the internet, they should be punished, because I’ll tell you what, I have three kids, and God forbid that any of them should ever fall victim to some kind of drug use or drugs, because I want them to be alive. And a little bit of punishment is worth saving any child’s... DIETL: But do me a favor. On this... SCARBOROUGH: Bo, Bo, before we get back-hold on. You’re going off the subject. I want to talk about the way that... (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: ... liberals have handled the Rush Limbaugh situation. And let’s go to Alan Dershowitz. Alan Dershowitz, we’ve had some liberals saying they wish Rush would be thrown in jail. We have other liberals saying they wish Rush would go deaf. You’ve been compassionate about it. You think some of the left have not? DERSHOWITZ: First of all, Eric Alterman is not a liberal. He is a far left hard, radical leftist who I oppose. SCARBOROUGH: OK. DERSHOWITZ: Let me tell you, I opposed him like you, hopefully, oppose Pat Buchanan and David Duke and some of the people on the extreme. “The Nation” is not a liberal magazine. “The Nation” is a hard-left magazine that liberals hate as much as they do Rush Limbaugh. Number one, Al Franken is a comic and I don’t think he should have said what he said. I don’t like that kind of commentary, and I certainly, certainly hate what Eric Alterman said, this business about using personal, physical attacks on people. But you’ve heard from Jesse Jackson, who is a liberal, and from me. I am a liberal. And yet you say, quote, “the liberals,” painting with the broad brush. There is no such thing as “the liberals.” We are people who have different views, different levels of compassion, different levels of sensibility. And please treat us as individuals the way we treat you as individuals. SCARBOROUGH: Jesse Jackson, let me treat you as an individual. Jesse Jackson, respond. JACKSON: Joe, Rush Limbaugh is sick, and that’s why he went to jail. But in his sickness, he got some illegal drugs, large quantities of them, a lot of them. And his supplier broke the law, and his source broke the law. The question is: Will we change the law and allow him to rehabilitate and keep working, or will he live within this law? I thought today he would come out with some sense of compassion for others like him who are in jail because of the same law. He seems to have not changed. It seems that at least there should be some remorse, because we should not say unkind things about a sick man. He is sick and he needs rehabilitation. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Curtis Sliwa, do you think Rush Limbaugh didn’t show compassion? SLIWA: Excuse me, Joe? SCARBOROUGH: I was just asking, do you think Rush Limbaugh lacked compassion today like Reverend Jackson said he did? SLIWA: It’s his first day out of the starting blocks, and, again, he reestablished, “I’m not a role model. I’m not a victim. I am guilty of my own excessive use.” And I got to ask Jesse Jackson, because I was in Atlanta at the time. Two brothers in solidarity in the civil rights movement-Julian Bond and Congressman Lewis-were running against one another in a neck-in-neck congressional race when Congressman Lewis turned to his good friend and said, “I’ve taken a drug test. Will you, Julian Bond?” And it was alleged that Julian had a cocaine problem. And that broke up their friendship at the time, but I didn’t hear people calling for Julian Bond to be incarcerated. I heard compassion for Julian Bond as you should have compassion for Rush Limbaugh and anyone who wants to come forward, acknowledge a problem, and then say-and for the rest of you out there who never thought you could seek treatment, do it. If I can do it, you can do it. JACKSON: But... SCARBOROUGH: Let’s Jesse respond. JACKSON: I have compassion for Rush Limbaugh. As a matter of fact, I think that the law that will prosecute him is harsh. I think all those others who have been imprisoned by that law should have rehabilitation just as he should have rehabilitation. I don’t think this law is liberal or conservative or black or white. The law is the moral center. The question remains: Should he be above this law or should he live the law as other people? Could you please answer that question? SLIWA: But Jesse, we don’t know if he’s going to be above the law. They’re still investigating this. And, Jesse, you could go a long way now in terms of getting the ear of Rush Limbaugh and try and sort of wean him over to your side, because I would think he’s going to be more open-minded to hear many, many different opinions about drug abuse, drug use, incarceration, whether it’s the person selling it or the person using it. JACKSON: I guess, Curtis, that’s what I was listening for today, because I think right now, the Apostle Saul was a killer of Christians. He got knocked off of his high horse and was blinded. He came up as the Evangelist. He went down a killer and came up a healer. Rush Limbaugh emerged now as one who is sympathetic to people who are sick. He emerged more sympathetic to those who have taken illegal substances. Will he emerge as a different person, or will he remain one who wants to send people to jail for taking illegal substances? SCARBOROUGH: OK, we’re going to have to continue right after this message. We’ll have a lot more including your phone calls. We’ll be right back. Stick around. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: Welcome back. Talking more about Rush. Let’s take a phone call right now. We’ve got Denise. She’s on the line from Greenwich, Connecticut. Go ahead. CALLER: Yes, hello? SCARBOROUGH: Yes. CALLER: Rush Limbaugh started taking this legal OxyContin from one of his doctors because of back pain, just like Jerry Lewis was taking Percodan for his back pain and also went to rehab. This is for medical back pain. DERSHOWITZ: How can you make a comparison? What happened then is Jerry Lewis continued to take it legally. This guy got his former maid to meet him in dark alleys and paid him cash. CALLER: It wasn’t dark alleys. How do you know it was dark alleys? DERSHOWITZ: Wait a minute. And did it secretly and surreptitiously an illegally. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Hold on, hold on, guys. OK, Alan-now before we move on, let’s clear something up really quickly right now. Alan Dershowitz, you talk about Rush Limbaugh getting these boxes of pills in dark alleys from his maid. That’s what the “National Enquirer” has said. We don’t know that for a fact, do we? DERSHOWITZ: Well, he hasn’t denied it. And it seems very likely that he would deny it if it there were any question about it. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Well, he actually said that it’s not the truth what people are hearing in the “National Enquirer.” let me ask your caller. If it turns out he got his maid to buy them illegally, would you change his DERSHOWITZ: Let’s assume-let’s wait and see what happens if it turns-let me ask your caller. If it turns out that he did get his maid to buy them illegally, would you change your views, or are you just a ditto head and support him no matter what he says? SCARBOROUGH: Well, she’s actually not there, but I’m sure if she were there, she’d say let’s let the guy that says “Joe” a thousand times a show talk. Go ahead, Bo. DIETL: I can’t believe-I love Alan Dershowitz tonight. For some reason, I love Alan Dershowitz. He makes a lot of sense tonight. And I’m going to tell you what Rush should be doing. Rush should be talking about the addictive properties of the OxyContin and the Vicodin and telling parents to beware of their children possibly trying this on the Internet. He should be out there helping other people that could possible get addicted. You can blow all the hot air you want on this thing here, but the fact of the matter, these are more addictive than heroine and cocaine. And Rush should now be a spearhead to tell people for their children to be wary. (CROSSTALK) SCARBOROUGH: Bo Dietl, I think actually Rush Limbaugh is doing that, and I think he’ll continue doing it. And after watching the show tonight, I’m sure he’ll talk about the dangers of children buying this stuff on the Internet. We’ll be right back on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY right after these messages. Kids, stay off the Internet. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) SCARBOROUGH: We’re back. Let’s go back to the phones now. Harry on the line from Delaware. Go ahead, Harry. CALLER: Yes. I’d like to thank you for taking my phone call. My question to the panel is, I’m a 38-year-old multiple sclerosis sufferer. Been on OxyContin for three years. I took myself off it a month ago. But as of now, there’s nothing else out on the market that is as-that works as well as the OxyContin. Unfortunately, marijuana has shown an extremely good tendency for working for people like me, but because I have children to raise, I won’t use it. What do you guys think as far as why they will not legalize something that will help people like myself? SCARBOROUGH: Curtis Sliwa, let’s go to you and then Jesse Jackson on this one. Go ahead, Curtis. SLIWA: Well, in terms of the prescription drug that Rush was using, I think what I marvel at-not to give him any praise-is how functional he was on taking such a massive amount each day which would suggest people like yourself will need it or others who become addicted to it can still function. We wouldn’t at all be aware of the fact that they’re addicted to some kind of drug. So I think if there is a positive light at the end of the tunnel to the Rush Limbaugh dilemma, there will be a lot of people out there who are functional who other relatives and loved ones will look at and say, “You know something? You got to get off this Jones, because even though you seem like you act normal and you function and you earn a paycheck, and you’re not robbing and stealing, and housing (ph), the fact is you got a problem, and you got to deal with it. And, hopefully, many, many other people will seek rehab like Rush Limbaugh. Let the criminal justice system determine what takes place in his household. Hopefully, he can be a spokesperson for those like him who need help. SCARBOROUGH: All right, let’s next go to Mary from Monroe, Louisiana then have Reverend Jackson respond. CALLER: Yes. I am a liberal, and for years, I have seen conservatives and hard conservatives like Rush Limbaugh point fingers at me and say that I am an immoral liberal more or less. I want you to know I have never done drugs. I don’t have a gambling addiction, and I think that he should step up to the plate and accept his punishment, because he broke the law. SCARBOROUGH: Jesse Jackson, respond to that. CALLER: Also, I obey the law. SCARBOROUGH: Jesse Jackson, respond. JACKSON: I have compassion on Rush because he is a sick man. To take the amount of drugs he has taken, it affects other parts of his body, even parts of his mind, and even to have the right to drive a car with illegal drugs endangers other people. So let’s deal with his sickness with compassion. Let those who attain mercy be merciful. I hope he will be merciful and not be arrogant in the face of their sickness. The question remains tonight: Will the law that will affect Rush Limbaugh affect other people? I think it’s a bad law that will condemn him. So either we change the law or you face the weight of this law. SCARBOROUGH: All right. Thank you so much, Reverend Jackson. Thank you, panel. We’ll see you tomorrow night. END |
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I was really trying to get through on the phone. I wanted to ask Jessie if all entertainers in Hollywood who go to rehab for illegal drug use should suffer the same fate as he thinks Rush should. I wanted him to condem his own side for doing the same damn thing!
When he was asked another question about another issue, he still went back to "racist Limbaugh committing a crimminal act and must be punished." He was obsessed with it. No matter what question was asked of him, he'd talk about "Racist crimminal" Rush. He was seething with hate - this "(Liberal only) forgiving man of God." LOL.
OK, this thread actually has nothing to do with Fox News... I just thought some of you might be interested in what's happening on "Scarborough Country". Former FL Congressman (R) Joe Scarborough hosts this show M-F, 10-11pm on MSNBC (opposite Greta on FNC).
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Sorry!
Here's a link to the transcript from that show... Here
Have also heard Scarborough opining that Rush should not be coming back so soon. They he, Scarborough, thinks Rush ought to take time off before returning....
The tone of Scarborough's comments annoyed me no end.
JACKSON: Rush did not go to rehab because of his view of black quarterbacks.
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BTW - this is a TYPO made by the transcript, not me:
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, “THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW)
SCHWARZENEGGER: So, I see that Ted Kennedy called a bunch of highly respected minorities Neanderthals. The fact that Ted Kennedy is still in the Senate and hasn’t been forced to resign means that nothing’s changed. It’s just a good thing Senator Kennedy didn’t say it on ESPN, or he might have resigned.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
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RUSH said that his first morning back on the air, NOT Schwarzanegger.
You mean the Scott/Laci/Kobe primetime from 9-11pm?
At least O'Reilly tries to stay away from it, thankfully.
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