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Origins of the Fourth World War
Nyquist ^ | 4-28-2003 | J.R.Nyquist

Posted on 11/15/2003 10:46:11 AM PST by Indie

At least one other communist bloc defector (Jan Sejna) confirmed that Moscow had contemplated collapsing the Warsaw Pact in order to undermine NATO. That made me sit up and take notice. In fact, it got me to thinking about the deeper significance of lying to the world while aiming thousands of nuclear weapons at the United States. Lying is related to killing. It is often a proof of enmity. It undermines peace and destroys relationships. In the end it leads to a harvest of sorrow. I reasoned that Moscow’s deception strategy would succeed up to a point. But lies are always exposed in the end. The only certain effect of the strategy would be to weaken the West and disorient policy. This would open a window for a military attack following a period of subversion, economic sabotage and proxy terrorism. It was my tentative conclusion, after carefully considering the consequences of deception strategy in an age of mass destruction weapons, that by committing themselves to this policy the Kremlin was inadvertently choosing nuclear war. Once the deception was on the brink of exposure, once the evil scheme had run its course, there would be the Devil to pay. Russia would be led, bit by bit, into accepting the logic of a first strike. In fact, Russia's generals were already behind such a scheme. That much was obvious to me in 1987, even before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Now it is 2003. We can look back and see how things have played out. We can see the newly emerging Russian belligerence. We can see KGB Lt. Col. Putin’s pretended friendship for President Bush and Russia's poorly hidden military alliance with Red China. There can be no question for honest students of current affairs. Things have developed in the direction forecast by Golitsyn, in the direction of a resurgent communist bloc, and everyone can see that military tensions are on the rise.

(Excerpt) Read more at jrnyquist.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; Russia
KEYWORDS: conspiracy; origins; tinfoil; wwiv
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To: Noswad
My belief on the issue is that people intent on hating the USSR back into existence should get to live with the consequences.
21 posted on 11/15/2003 8:15:40 PM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: gcruse
My belief on the issue is that people intent on hating the USSR back into existence should get to live with the consequences

You can't hate anything back into existence unless you are willing to become that very movement yourself. I see no evidence of that here. Putin is taken back power to the executive side. The press has been neutered by him through charges, unexplained murders of media personal(many where critical of him, why?) Putin has filled half of the top positions in the high office with former KGB colleagues. Russian Kornet anti tank weapons and albeit junk GPS scramblers where given to Saddam. Russian advisors remained in Iraq up to the last week where the war began and secondly some remained behind until we reached Bagdad when they decided to pull out all together. The remaining Iraqi forces where so furious they attacked them while they tried leaving. Russia prior to the war meet with the leaders of France and Germany. We know how those two behaved, we also know that Russia wasn't to fond of our decision either. Saddam pandered to just about anyone who would help him. Why did Russia feel the need to abide? The Russians are helping Iran with their nuclear capabilities. What Iran doesn’t get from Russia they get from Pakistan(Chinese assisted and DPRK assisted) and get direct help by the DPRK(who both Russia and China have given weapons technology and aid) which includes the Shahab-3 and Shahab-4(variants on DPRK missile program).

How about that, the allies that Russia clings to are the same allies that the Soviet Union clung to. This already tells me there are those inside the Russian government who have a hard time in letting go the past. This is something to be a cause for alarm. Russia and China put the problem of the DPRK into our lap, even though they are right on the border. If something goes wrong, and it inevitably will, then they can cry its all America’s fault. Fortunately, this administration is taking a very cautious approach after seeing the double dealing going on here.

And China, who can question what their ultimate goals are at this point.
22 posted on 11/16/2003 9:15:32 AM PST by DarkWaters
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To: DarkWaters
You can't hate anything back into existence

Of course you can.  By pushing the hair ball notion that Russia is an undercover USSR, that they have designs on somehow winning the lost Cold War, that they are intent on facilitating the overthrow of the US, the people pushing this stuff risk alienating Russia, fomenting a backlash against the US, and bringing back into existence an America-phobic Russian state.  Their hatred risks triggering a self-fulfilling prophecy. Having lived most of my life under the threat of thermonuclear war,  I'm loathe to approach the brink again based on paranoid rants.


How about that, the allies that Russia clings to are the same allies that the Soviet Union clung to.

Cuba?  Libya?  And who is it doing all the trading with Communist China?  Us.  Are we the old USSR, too?
23 posted on 11/16/2003 2:13:26 PM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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To: Indie; meenie; liberty or death; Travis McGee
Whenever I hear the hypothesis that the Soviets/Russians are playing opposum (and have been for the past 10+ years) in order to lull us into complacency, it gets under my skin.

I study the former Soviet Union for a living and have traveled all over it. Let me tell you, they're broken: in every way imaginable. The Soviets' loss in the Cold War was no sham. In order to get one brigade into the peacekeeping effort in Bosnia, they have to practically cannibalize the rest of their entire force.

Russia is doomed from the very start. Due to their climate they'll probably never be able to feed themselves. In the few locations where they can grow crops there is either not enough water, not enough heat, insufficient soil, or too short a growing season.

They have very few significant items of export, the most profitable being oil and gas, of which they have the largest known fields in the world. But again, due to the location of these natural resources in extremely remote areas of Siberia that are covered with permafrost, it's almost impossible to access the potential riches.

In short, Russia's geography comes very close to dooming its existence from the very start.

Communism systematically killed off the "best and brightest," and then enthusiastically eliminated the mediocre who stood out from the remaining crowd.

The average life span in Russia is diminishing.

The death rate is increasing.

The birth rate is decreasing.

Since the fall of communism, a strong "brain drain" has lured away Russia's scientists, technicians, etc, to countries who can actually pay them.

And probably the biggest problem in their military (in addition to the effect of all of the above) is that they have no NCO corps. Their situation, in short, is hopeless.

24 posted on 11/16/2003 6:10:44 PM PST by Matthew James (SPEARHEAD!)
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To: Matthew James; Jeff Head
I agree. BTW, I meet bright and energetic Russians almost every week. The problem for Russia is that they are now over here, starting companies etc.

I think the Chinese may get to asiatic Siberia's riches before the Russians do, if anyone does.

25 posted on 11/16/2003 7:26:15 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Matthew James
Communist spy!!! Who sent you?? Was it..... Putin!!!??? I be it was so we'd think this guy really is a nut, so you can spring your communist trap and kill us all!!! Ah!!! !Ah!!! (spinning in circles, running into walls)
26 posted on 11/16/2003 7:33:53 PM PST by Porterville (Grow some leather or go away.)
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To: gcruse
Are we the old USSR, too? Where did I imply this? We didn’t butcher over 80 to 100 million people(God forbid we inject China’s 60 to 100 million). We didn’t place indefinite and totalitarian constraints on our society for the sake of state power. This borders on slander sir.

And how nice of you to notice all the trade we do with China. We have let them steal state and military secrets. Our government has simply handed over sensitive technology on a whim. Our corporations have done the same thing. We have built a huge modern industrial base for them that even we don’t have here at home. This is similar to what we did back in the 1920's when Lenin proclaimed that communism didn’t work and installed state capitalism under the NEP. He opened the borders and the way to investment for a damaged country. And we happily obliged him. Had we not, they would have failed and been another piece of history. As it was, we were to busy trying to make money to see the danger we where placing ourselves in. Stalin sure showed us the error of our way, if only we could remember the past.

Secondly, we are not the only ones doing all the trading with Communist China. It so happens the Europeans and especially Russia are there as well. Russia is giving China newer and more modern tools of war(until they can get their own up and running) and technology that they can’t acquire from us. Su-27, Su-30, AWACS related technology, ability to produce components for maintenance purposes of such weapon systems, S-300 missiles, and at the meat of all this is the ballistic missile technology transfer with respect to the DF-31 and especially the DF-41 which is modeled off of Russia’s brand new Ballistic missile the SS-27 a.k.a. the Topol-M. Solid state motor(no liquid propellent), mobile, can travel under the south pole and loop back up and still hit the any part of the U.S. if it is desired. All in all it is simply an offensive weapon, for first strike capability and hiding in case things get a little hot. Not bad for a country that poses no threat to us any longer and one with little or no money. They build 3-4 of these a month since mid 1999 and then gave the technology to the Chinese who have such a loving disposition for us as it is. You do remember the Chinese general who in a round about way threatened the nuking of L.A. over the Taiwanese election and again in 2000 except this time it was inferred the whole west coast. This is not done unless the consent of the communist party has given expressed approval.

So here is China gaining all they can to be a new threat to us. Sooner or later we will have to wake up or face some very bad times if we don’t prep for China alone. Like it or not a new cold war is here and the ChiComs don’t give a damn about you ‘having lived most of my life under the threat of thermonuclear war’. These people play for keeps and they are very patient. And this brings up another fact that will burst your bubble, the last ten years has not seen any reduction in the possibility of a thermonuclear war. Russia’s arsenal is stilled aim at us just as ours are aimed at them in some fashion. We have had three close calls in the 1990's with the Russian’s over a launch mishaps. The most prominent one occurred around 1996 with a Norwegian rocket carrying a satellite that the Russians had been told about previously. As it stood Yeltsin has his finger on the button. Paranoia? Its not here in the U.S., Russia on the other hand is a different story. Russia still has its stock pile of 20,000 to 40,000 nuclear weapons, many of these are undeclared as required under treaty, but cheating has always been legendary there. If we include China, we know they never stopped targeting us. Fancy that, and they just keep adding to that war chest of theirs. To bad we are dismantling our MX Peacekeeper missiles, don’t want to have those as a deterrent.

Then there is Russia’s multi billion dollar modernizing of Yamantau mountain complex for those just incase nuclear wars and is complete with an underground subway tunnel all the way to Moscow. Yet again who is paranoid? We have opened up a base in Georgia that seems to have rattled their cage a little. We also opened up a base in Kyrgyzstan and the Russian’s wasted little time to place one of their own since the end of the cold war which is a mere 25 km from ours. Apparently some where not to happy with us being there, but I thought we were partners on the war on terror, if its just lip service I will then agree.

Then there is the allies. Cuba who currently helped put that self proclaimed Maoist Hugo Chavez into Venezuela. Cuba who along with Chavez support the Marxist group FARC to topple Columbia, they have pushed every way to get Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva elected in Brazil who is now letting the actions of the MST(landless workers movement) slide. O, and the MST has had the support of Castro and the PT party that Lula belongs to. Chavez is allowing Islamic extremists to set up in his country. Then there is China who is getting more heavily involved with Venezuela, Brazil, Panama, the Bahamas. Lets not forget Lybia who has been seen with both Castro and Chavez together, just look around here at FreeRepublic for pictures in the Latin American threads.

Then Lybia’s proclamations that it represents all of the African nation and their plight against colonialism. Lybia works closely with the ANC of South Africa, another communist group and look where that country went, from high and doing well to one of the cesspools of the world. There is also the construction of two submarine bases on the tip of South Africa by the Chinese. Then there is Lybia’s and Cuba’s(this was going on even in the cold war with the Soviet Union’s blessing) connections to Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe once know as Rhodesia. Egypt isn’t much of a friend in the last 3 years, actually it has always been playing a two sided game. To think of it, I can only find one country that really is pro American, Uganda. Most of the left over countries side them selves with the allies of Russia(Cuba and Lybia, fancy that) and are either run by dictators or those with some flavor of Marxist/Leninist/Maoist thought. For just being two countries, they certainly have their fingers in the affairs of many other countries. You did leave out the DPRK, Iran, at one time Iraq, and China which is the most powerful country in which the two have reconciled their differences since the Sino-Soviet split. With these others, they further have their fingers in other countries and their affairs.

To say the least this is a very large chunk of land where influence and sympathy side with Russia. Wether its because of arms or because of ideological connections with the communists in Russia who have never been prosecuted, never said their sorry, who look for the day when they can restore their country back to the former years as they often do in that rag Pravda and Izvestia(they are state run by the way) poor out support for the aforementioned countries named above.

the people pushing this stuff risk alienating Russia, fomenting a backlash against the US, and bringing back into existence an America-phobic Russian state.

I hate to break this to you but we took out a real nasty slime ball called Saddam Hussain. Russia has already shown it was slighted by the thought we would even try to take him out. Russia rallied the Germans, French, who intern rallied others and good portions of the respective countries populations that pledge their support with organizations such as the Marxist based ANSWER(the EU doesn’t know which way to pull itself at this point). Africa was outspoken against us, much of Latin America was against us, Canada. Sir, just who exactly here is fomenting a backlash against the U.S.? Are you going to tell me it’s a very obscure group of people who believe various things on Russia because of intelligence, defectors, and actions are going to affect our relationship with them when they have absolutely no one in a position of power who is willing to touch the issues surrounding Russia? Because if it is, that is some amount of power they hold over the world for having no position of power not to mention that this is totally unbelievable. The fact still remains, policy is set by the Executive branch of government and I see no one willing to challenge Russia over most things with the exception of imposing sanctions on some Russia companies for selling arms, and this alone didn’t go over well with the Kremlin. Its obvious no one in this government wants to make waves with them, but with the security of our country at stake, it is becoming increasingly hard. I simply find it hard to believe that those in Russia don’t know and see this as well. Yet they give us little room to maneuver. Don’t touch Iran, they may employ their new policy on using nuclear weapons to resolve the conflicts if you read between the lines. Forget their military exercise in Asia with China(one of largest to date), and forget their military exercise where they simulated bombing the UK and US with nuclear weapons in the last year and forget their nuclear bombing exercises over the Arctic Circle in September of 2001(that was to occur in the same week as 9-11 happened, the President to his credit told them that he wasn’t going to put up with it).

You also don’t have to worry about Russia becoming an America-phobic state, you see it already is. Many who run the government don’t’ like us. The people ever since the late 1990's have become feed up with the system their. The gangsterism, the corruption of officials, very little progress in terms of a free economic and even a free political system has given a very bad taste into the mouths of those who saw America as its savior some 12 years ago. The older ones are resentful, they see no difference with the state now compared to the old days with the exception that at least in the old days most people received handouts. An increasing number wish for the old days. One other thing on this topic, the Russian youth(1999 or earlier) have in the last few years been listening to music that...... the right word that I am looking for is well quite anti-American in its nature in its rock music. The opinion of us by most Russians has been going into the cellar for several years now.

Their hatred risks triggering a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Well sir, I have read the above piece and no where do I see any hate, I see a great deal of scrutiny and analyzing of data that I gather you disagree with. I see someone who wants to protect this country from a trend of bad things. Yet despite that very few are even willing to look and investigate the facts. Wether his conclusions are correct or not we will have to see, but being a prudent man that I am, I don’t like to tempt fate and be caught off guard. This is hardly triggering a self fulfilled prophecy at this point, if its going to happen its going to happen because of those who have the power(the control of states, a large military, nuclear, chemical, and biological weapon) to make it happen. The people of Europe and America who lived the 1920's and 1930's did tempt fate. They ignored the warnings of growing problems in Germany, the rise of Hitler, Stalin, and Japan. The era of appeasement and the legacy of Neville Chamberlain reigned supreme. In today’s world no one wants to deal with the inconsistencies of Russia’s dealings, her military build up, cutting off outsiders to portions of the interior country, its double standards on treaties, its close relationship with dictatorships that hate our guts, etc. because we find out that she gets mad and we don’t want the rock the apple cart after all we need to conduct business with a corrupt country. The same goes for China. The growing anti-Americanism around the world that we haven’t seen since the bad old days of the Cold War are here again, but the flavor it takes on this time is far more powerful than those of yester years.
27 posted on 11/16/2003 7:37:39 PM PST by DarkWaters
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To: Indie
Actually, I think this guy is making some very intelligent observations, he's just focused on the wrong target.

Russia is only part of the picture. The real threat is an ideology, not a particular country. He seems to think that the base of power of communism must remain in Moscow. Hardly. I mean, yes, they want Moscow, and they'll take it back when they're ready (and there -are- signs that they're getting ready to), but the fact is, the people who would have planned something like this were far more interested in the fate of the planet as a whole rather than any particular country.

I mean, come on people, we're talking about an ideology that killed at least 100 million people in the 20th century. These are not people who think small, or unwilling to sacrifice others. They are utopian megalomaniacs.

Fact is, their tactics changed - rather than trying to take over the world through Moscow, they decided to do it through internationalization and the United Nations. I submit for evidence the following text that was put into the U.S. Congressional Record with unaminous consent of Congress in 1963. Pay particular attention to #11, and several others that show that they definetly considered switching all their attention to the U.N., World Court and WTO as their Plan B.




Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture-- education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.




Qwinn


28 posted on 11/16/2003 8:41:46 PM PST by Qwinn
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To: Qwinn
And how many did YA'LL come up with that weren't achieved or were very very close? My checklist show commies 45 to 0 with a shutout.
29 posted on 11/16/2003 9:09:31 PM PST by Indie (ISLAM THE CULT OF EVIL)
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To: Indie
Heh... scary as hell isn't it?

I'd say it's more like 42-3. NOT looking good for the good guys by any measure.

I don't think they managed #35... the FBI hasn't really been discredited or dismantled (though I think it was getting close until a tin foil hat TV Show, the X-Files, revived it's reputation - lol).

#45 - While I don't know what the Connally Reservation was or if it was repealed, we have at least managed to fend off jurisdiction of the World Court so far, thanks to Bush.

#37 - Are they in -control- of big business? Nah, I really don't think it can be put so starkly. Some of 'em, sure, but overall I think that big business is still mainly controlled by capitalists, simply by their nature. They certainly do have strings to pull though.

Other than that tho, I'd say they achieved at least 80% of the stated goals of the other 42 in the last 30 years. It scares the hell out of me. This is just way way WAY too much to be coincidence.

Does anyone really dispute that?

Qwinn

30 posted on 11/16/2003 9:31:30 PM PST by Qwinn
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To: Jeff Head; Travis McGee; patton
Hmmmmmmm.....?
31 posted on 11/16/2003 9:35:39 PM PST by Squantos (Support Mental Health !........or........ I"LL KILL YOU !!!!)
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To: Matthew James
The export of their pretty momen as wives and whores must insult their Russian national pride as much as anything.
32 posted on 11/16/2003 9:52:07 PM PST by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: Wilhelm Tell
Wasnt Golitsyn the one who tore the CIA apart? The one who defected claiming a KGB mole at Langley causing Jesus Angleton to go nuts and gut the Agency? Or was that Nosenko? I have never understood why so much is put into defectors claims. Either way, this guys sounds like a nut. Case in point; look at the Far East Military Districts bailiwick-its to defend the Rodina(do they still call it that?) from attack by the "yellow peril". The old russian boogeyman- China. I have a hard time believing in any kind of secret Sino-Russian Military pact.
33 posted on 11/16/2003 9:59:00 PM PST by cardinal4 (Hillary and Clark rhymes with Ft Marcy park...)
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To: Travis McGee; Jeff Head
I think that Russia may eventually realize (probably too late) that they can't run that country as large as it is. It would make more sense if it was broken into 3-5 autonomous pieces; and it wouldn't surprise me if China grabbed or "alligned itself" with one of them.
34 posted on 11/17/2003 3:29:38 AM PST by Matthew James (SPEARHEAD!)
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To: Porterville
Heh, heh ;-)
35 posted on 11/17/2003 3:30:30 AM PST by Matthew James (SPEARHEAD!)
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To: JudgemAll
yep, the communist empire has fallen except for China, Cuba, North Korea, Syria and myriads of others popping up.

Yeah, it seems like a crackpot conspiracy theory on the surface, but evidence exists to make one think... and WE almost elected Algore!

36 posted on 11/17/2003 3:49:10 AM PST by ovrtaxt ( http://www.fairtax.org **** Forget ANWR. Drill Israel !)
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To: Matthew James
From the article: The totalitarian left has not been defeated. It is gaining ground in Europe, Latin America and Canada. Russia and China hope to use the left to trample America into the dust. And it appears they could succeed. I have longed to find some fact, some line of argument that would refute this grim prognosis, that would prove once and for all that my work is the result of clinical paranoia. But the facts keep pouring in.

Now my concern isn't the ressurection of the USSR, but the continuing campaign of the left throughout the world, most obvious through the UN and Annan. The tide continues to move in the direction of statism and control freak regimes on every continent. Even socialist countries like France are now de facto allies of the Communist carcass, still twitching in the casket.

We need look no farther than the ACLU, most of the judicial branch, and the voting records in our large population centers to see the sentiment still alive here.

The Islamic threat is just the militant front of the enemies of freedom.

37 posted on 11/17/2003 4:04:51 AM PST by ovrtaxt ( http://www.fairtax.org **** Forget ANWR. Drill Israel !)
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To: Qwinn
We didn’t butcher over 80 to 100 million people.

Only because there weren't that many indians to kill. There's no glossing over the fact that the U.S. committed genocide against the red man. We also enslaved the black man. The U.S. got over the sins of Wounded Knee and Jim Crow and got better.

Likewise, Russian is no longer Stalin's Soviet Union.

38 posted on 11/17/2003 4:57:15 AM PST by Jim Cane ("I've always lived twice." ~ Dr. Sarcophagus.)
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To: Matthew James; Indie; Squantos; Travis McGee
One of the principal thesis of my fictional Dragon's Fury Series is that the Russians realize they need help exploiting and developing the Siberian resources to the point of jump starting their stagnant economy and they turn to the Chinese and the INdians to do so...who then later stab them in the back when Siberia declares Independence and professes solidarity with the Chinese.

Of course this happens after 2-3 years of warfare of the Chinese and the Islamics against the West which Russia tries to sit out.

39 posted on 11/17/2003 6:05:57 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: meenie; swarthyguy; Orion78; Brian S; Paul Ross; Jeff Head; lavaroise
Few here in the West are even aware of the 7/16/2001 Axis treaty between Beijing and Moscow. Western media barely covered the most momentous treaty to be concluded in many decades if not longer. Geopolitics, nation to nation conflicts and the reality of future wars between great powers do not sell well in today's hypermercantilist, nihilist environment. It is much more politically correct (and better for the securities markets) to subscribe to the utterly infantile utopianism of Thomas L. Friedman and Francis Fukuyama than it is to be mindful of thousands of years of demonstrated history (and subsequent stochastic learnings) not to mention the wisdom of the world's greatest futurist, Von Clausewitz.
40 posted on 11/17/2003 8:03:08 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Un-PC even to "Conservatives!" - Right makes right)
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