Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 14-18

Various | November 14, 2003 | sweetliberty

[sweetliberty]

(Thread 8 - November 14-18)

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Link back to thread 7 (Nov. 11-14)

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Contained in Thread 7:

Radio interview with one of Michael's ex-girlfriends, transcript from CBS News Sunday Morning - Sunday 11-09-03 (Martha Teischner reports over a series of pre-recorded video clips in this news magazine's lead story...), possible link to collusion in the legal proceedings involving attorney George Felos (representing Michael Schiavo) and the neurologist Dr. Peter Bambakidis (court appointed, independent, examining physician), information on Judge Greer not being a judge, Tiger Bay Club Schiavo Debate Info, Michael Schiavo charged with perjured testimony, Michael Schiavo is this month's "black boot" award winner from conspiracyworld.com, Schiavo case timeline and 2 informative letters to Gov. Bush.

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Ckick on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

ATTENTION friends of Terri! I have been asked by the folks in Florida to post the following message:

PLEASE HONOR THIS REQUEST FROM TAMPA BAY, FLORIDA: DO NOT PUT NAME AND TOWN or other personal info of TERRI VOLUNTEERS in public posts on the Terri threads. If in doubt, DELETE THEIR NAME OUT!!! Please do not post personal addresses and phone #s, towns re: Terri's volunteers and her family. PLEASE SEND PEOPLE TO terrisfight.org for the Foundation Address. Thanks.

Many thanks to all of you who are helping keep FReepers and others up to date with information and for all your efforts in making this thread work. All the research, transcripts, prayers and contact information are invaluable. Special thanks to Calpernia for the header graphic.

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Latest threads on Terri's Case:

Terri Schiavo, life insurance, and insurers duty to cancel if beneficiary is trying to kill insured

Governor Sidetracks Schiavo 's Lawsuit

Oregon Bishop Speaks Out in the Case of Terri Schiavo

A thousand words about the Terri Schiavo you never knew

Florida governor, lawmakers defend 'Terri's Law'

Schiavo's case is really about religious right

Roy Moore:Media 'will not print the truth' (While this article isn't only about Terri, Judge Moore does address the issue in this interview)

Remove Dennis Kucinich's Feeding Tube! (Terry Schiavo's Case By Ann Coulter!)

[pollywog]

It's interesting to me that in the malpractice trial in 1992, it was argued by MS's attorney at the time that Terri would have a life-span of 50 years. Expert testimony helped the jury reach the decision that Terri life expectancy was 17 years because of the supposed bulimia, and they awarded based on that figure instead.

This may be out in " left field"....but what would the possibility be of the company that awarded the money in the malpractice lawsuit, to reopen that case again? seems like they were DEFRAUDED!

[msmagoo]

I was wrong. Florida law does NOT say PVS is terminal. It was GREER that ruled, in this particular case (see bold below) that PVS is terminal.

Jeb Bush Amicus Curiae Brief

Argument

Terri does not have a terminal illness, is not brain dead, and is not comatose. Other than some future intervening illness or accident, it is only lack of food and water that would cause her death. She is in a persistent vegetative state (“PVS”), which in itself will not cause her death.

Florida law defines PVS separately from terminal illness, and employs the term as a separate concept in the procedural requirements to withdraw life-prolonging procedures.

Section 765.101(17), Florida Statutes (2003) (defining “terminal condition” and including an expectation of death as a result of the condition); Section 765.101(12), Florida Statutes (2003) (defining “persistent vegetative state” and omitting any expectation of death as a result of the condition); Section 744.305(2), Florida Statutes (2003) (requiring one of three conditions before a surrogate can exercise the incompetent patient’s right to forego treatment: that the patient have an “end-stage condition,” or be in a persistent vegetative state, “or the patient’s physical condition is terminal.” (Emphasis added.)

PVS is clearly not the same as a terminal illness. However, the state court inexplicably concluded that Terri is “terminal.”

Schindler v. Schiavo (In re Guardianship of Schiavo), 792 So. 2d 551, 560 (Fla. 2d DCA 2001) (Schiavo II).

The fact that she is unable to give herself nourishment is not a symptom of a dying body; it is the result of severe injury and disability.

[nicmarlo]

is HARD work to remodel a kitchen and walk for hours through Lowes and Home Depot!!Thanks for the laugh nicmarlo!!

Glad I could bring on a smile....I don't envy your remodeling efforts...although, I'm sure, once it's done you will be well-pleased for the effort! : )

[pollywog]

I sat up in the balcony, and loved listening to the beautiful church organ.....I've still never seen such a monstrous one as Lake Avenue had (has still?)

LOL I used to sing in the choir and try and keep my kids behaving in the balcony at the same time. Hubby was on audio/sound so the kiddos were kept in line by mama and stern looks!!

BTW, Lake Ave. now has a new sanctuary with one of the biggest organs in the country. Magnificient music that leads us all in worship and praise to God.!!

Well nuff said......back to pray'n for Terri!

[sfRummygirl]

Thank you for posting this.
Hey, Terri fighters, I am going to take a freeper break, as I have health issues I have to deal with....nothing life threatening, but just know my prayers are still with Terri, and all of you good hearted people, as well.
Catch ya later....

[Aliska]

Awakening a story of hope

"The Delgado family of El Paso, Texas, wants to send a message to the family of brain-damaged Terri Schiavo in Clearwater: Don't give up hope.

"In March 1995, Velma Delgado got up one morning feeling dizzy and sick. The 24-year-old's parents got her to the nearest hospital, where doctors told them fluid had accumulated on her brain and caused it to collapse onto the brain stem.

"The damage was irreversible, doctors said, and she probably would die or, at the least, she would never recover. A priest came; last rites were given.

"In April 1998, after being kept alive by a feeding tube and turned in her bed every two hours, day and night, for three years, Velma Delgado woke up. She moved, she began to make sounds, she even walked with help."

Click on link to read the rest of the story.

[nicmarlo]

know that our thoughts and prayers are with you as well.....good night Rummy.

[fiesti]

lol my brain goes faster then my fingers but sometimes I have brain farts too lol

[Graymatter]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20031115_994.html

"LAKELAND, Fla. Nov. 15 — An appeals court has stepped in to at least temporarily block a man's challenge to a law that restored his brain-damaged wife's feeding tube in a contentious right-to-die case.
"Florida Gov. Jeb Bush had faced a Monday deadline to justify the constitutionality of the law, which was passed specifically to allow the governor to intervene in the case of Terri Schiavo. The 2nd District Court of Appeal issued an indefinite stay late Friday, hours after a lower judge lifted another stay.
"Michael Schiavo now must explain to the state appeals court by Tuesday why his challenge should be on a fast track."

[HiTech RedNeck]

This is starting to look like a ping-pong match.

[nickcarraway]

Court Issues New Stay in Schiavo Case

[HiTech RedNeck]

"Michael Schiavo now must explain to the state appeals court by Tuesday why his challenge should be on a fast track."

Well good, at least someone in the judicial system is not getting totally snowed by Felos.

[Graymatter]

Interesting document at

http://www.2dca.org/opinion/October%2017,%202001/2d01-3626.pdf

Gets interesting at page 9. FL 2nd DCA says an independent physician should examine Terri to determine whether the Schindlers' claims have merit.

[pickyourpoison]

Just emailed McCabe about this. Please keep posting this address so everyone sees it.
Monday morning we need that computer to be full.

[pickyourpoison]

bump

[Robert Drobot]

Cyn,
Please accept my assurance that threads created after I posted my last index - including the two you reference - will all be included in my next index update.

I've responded affirmatively to the suggestion by HiTech RedNeck on 11/13/03 for inclusion of the URL's for all of the Terri threads. See Terri's Threads on FreeRepublic.com - 13 Nov 2003 1035 PST.

As a further enhancement to the index, I'll include the number of posts each thread generated - a suggestion made by Canticle_of_Deborah.

I hope this will eliminate any further worry you may have about what and how my index update is presented.

Thanks again for you're well intended input Cyn, it is appreciated.

[Robert Drobot]

Keep on keep'in on editor-surveyor!!! Great posts!!!

[buffyt]

an email I received...

My mother called me last week and told me that my dad's youngest brother choked on a piece of meat. He was standing at the kitchen counter eating sausage. His wife went to another room and when she came back, he was motioning for her to hit him on the back (NEVER do that, always do the Heimlich). She did and he started turning blue. She called 911 and by the time they got there, he passed out. He's been in a coma since last Saturday. His daughters from an earlier marriage, from California, came to see him. The doctors had told his wife that they needed to take him off life support because he was brain dead. WELL, his oldest daughter had put her head on the bed and was crying, his sister noticed that tears started coming down his face. They called in the doctor and he told Lisa (his daughter) to talk to him and tell him to blink, so she did and he blinked! We're all just praying that he continues to improve.

[sweetliberty]

Robert, thank you so much for doing this. There are such volumes of information that have been generated by Terri's case that it is often difficult to find things. Your effort to help coordinate that information is greatly appreciated.

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[ChemistCat]

I have been profoundly affected by the Terri Schindler-Schiavo case--to the point where I have longed to go to Florida to be part of the candlelight vigils. I have felt bad that my family, my health, and my studies have kept me from going to Florida to add my physical presence to that of those holding vigil. I believe I should BE there. I think it's more important than anything else I'm doing. But I can't be.

Note I believe in right-to-die--this just isn't a right-to-die case, as she had no living will and her husband's actions and motives prove him a base and criminal man. Had Terri a living will, I would be just as strongly supporting WHATEVER that living will said she wanted. In fact, at first I was opposed to what those trying to save her are doing. As I learned more I realized I was wrong, and Terri would not want to die--this particular woman who did CPR on a dying old dog would want everything done to give herself a chance, too. All the real evidence supports that, and sound neurology supports real hope that she could be helped.

Anyway, my health has made it difficult to do more than make phone calls to Florida officials. But I have done that.

Last night, I had a dream about Terri.

I dreamed that I was visiting her and discovered that I could understand her. Her grunts were speech--and no one had been paying attention. Everyone had assumed she couldn't talk, so it was true for them. She told me she wanted to live and to help her. So I picked her up. (Note: I haven't been able to carry my children for four years) and carried her out. For some reason the cops who guard her were busy and didn't see me leaving with her. At the front desk I told her that she must tell them what she told me. But they couldn't understand her and summoned security, so I ran. I even got her to stand (supported) briefly, while I fiddled with locks to open a door. And then I had her outside. The look of wonder on her face! Sunshine on her, the green of trees around her, fountains splashing, human faces smiling at her.

I saw pursuit so I fled through bushes and we found ourselves at a big outdoor swimming pool. Terri was afraid, but I had the idea that the pursuers wouldn't check so I waded in with her. She was delighted. She hasn't seen sunlight or a tree in years, and she certainly hadn't been immersed in water. We walked through the pool and everyone smiled at her and she smiled back. Then I managed (don't ask how) to get her back out and we fled through the back gate and into a small forest around a golf course.

We walked through the golf course and then came upon motels. On the other side of a road I could tell there was beach. I took Terri to look out over the ocean and to catch my breath and think what to do next. Note I don't know where this hospice is, if it's really within walking distance of the ocean--it IS just a dream.

Some LDS missionaries came down the road--two young men--and I asked them for help. They said they had to get permission and left to phone their mission leader.

I have been **very** distressed at the silence from my Church about Terri. Of course, Terri is Catholic, and most of her own church has been equally silent. They could save her if they'd speak out for her.

But mine speaks out about abortion, about the family, about life. I know there are LDS who have been out there for Terri, and I hope they know they represent me too.

So they were gone, and I was left worrying about pursuit and finally (in my dream) tired. I knocked on motel room doors, and finally this black (family?) let me in. They were all thirty-something and middle-aged and I never figured out what they were to each other, just that they DID let me in. They let me have one of the beds in their room. They were watching TV and laughing and they left me alone. Occasionally one of them would go get something I needed--a plastic sheet, clean towels. They didn't complain or interfere or ask any questions.

I washed and tended to Terri who was very tired and uncommunicative. Anyone seeing her now would believe I had kidnapped a comatose woman instead of rescuing someone who had asked me to help her. I was very worried about that. I had trouble making sure she had a good airway, and a lot more trouble cleaning her up since (as babies do) as soon as I would think she was done she needed tending again.

(I'm afraid my own life is quite linked to this stuff as I've had chronic runs for four weeks. I have been hospitalized for it, with no result. I can't eat anything solid without a lot of pain. So it's not surprising that my dream would be, uh, detailed on these points.)

The whole dream was internally consistent which is the weirdest thing of all. The locale didn't change--I was in a Florida hotel room managing with Florida hotel room supplies, and you can think how hard that would have been. I NEVER have consistent dreams like this--usually the locale shifts, the people shift, or basic rules of the universe change, etc. Certainly I break the laws of thermodynamics all the time in dreams. But this time it all made sense.

Then I realized she'd had no food or drink since we left the hospice, and I started trying to figure out how to get sustenance into her. Settled on ice chips the family
fetched for me, and some baby food one of them had along. Terri was so tired it was hard to spoon feed her. She didn't choke--just kept falling asleep on me. (In real life, she would probably need much therapy from a specialist to get to the point of taking enough food by spoon to survive.)

And I was so tired and trying desperately to think how to get help. I knew FReepers who care about Terri would help but I had no computer. (In my usual dreams, if I want something, somehow it's at hand.) I knew her parents would be right there but that if I called them, it was likely to be police and Felos and Schiavo who would show up first. I also knew that even if I could trust the family who let me in not to get annoyed and call the cops (I'm sure they needed both those beds!!!) I would eventually be found.

And that's when I woke up. I've never had a dream more affecting, pertinent, lucid or rational. Once you accept the initial absurd premises (that I was in with Terri to see her, that I was physically capable of hauling her around Florida) all the rest of it makes sense.

Terri is a stranger to me and I probably would not have liked her very much before her brain damage. She was not the kind of person I get along with well. Still--I know that it's a moral outrage that she has been denied rehabilitative therapies that might have let her communicate with her caregivers, even restore her to greater function, if not full function.

Had to tell someone about this dream. Hope you all understand at least, and if you want to flame me that I'm wrong about Terri, just hold on to it because I really can't take it right now.

I want to be there for her--directly, heroically, and I can't, and that is breaking my heart.