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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 14-18
Various | November 14, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/14/2003 2:06:57 AM PST by sweetliberty

(Thread 8 - November 14-18)

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Link back to thread 7 (Nov. 11-14)

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Contained in Thread 7:

Radio interview with one of Michael's ex-girlfriends, transcript from CBS News Sunday Morning - Sunday 11-09-03 (Martha Teischner reports over a series of pre-recorded video clips in this news magazine's lead story...), possible link to collusion in the legal proceedings involving attorney George Felos (representing Michael Schiavo) and the neurologist Dr. Peter Bambakidis (court appointed, independent, examining physician), information on Judge Greer not being a judge, Tiger Bay Club Schiavo Debate Info, Michael Schiavo charged with perjured testimony, Michael Schiavo is this month's "black boot" award winner from conspiracyworld.com, Schiavo case timeline and 2 informative letters to Gov. Bush.

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Ckick on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

ATTENTION friends of Terri! I have been asked by the folks in Florida to post the following message:

PLEASE HONOR THIS REQUEST FROM TAMPA BAY, FLORIDA: DO NOT PUT NAME AND TOWN or other personal info of TERRI VOLUNTEERS in public posts on the Terri threads. If in doubt, DELETE THEIR NAME OUT!!! Please do not post personal addresses and phone #s, towns re: Terri's volunteers and her family. PLEASE SEND PEOPLE TO terrisfight.org for the Foundation Address. Thanks.

Many thanks to all of you who are helping keep FReepers and others up to date with information and for all your efforts in making this thread work. All the research, transcripts, prayers and contact information are invaluable. Special thanks to Calpernia for the header graphic.

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Latest threads on Terri's Case:

Terri Schiavo, life insurance, and insurers duty to cancel if beneficiary is trying to kill insured

Governor Sidetracks Schiavo 's Lawsuit

Oregon Bishop Speaks Out in the Case of Terri Schiavo

A thousand words about the Terri Schiavo you never knew

Florida governor, lawmakers defend 'Terri's Law'

Schiavo's case is really about religious right

Roy Moore:Media 'will not print the truth' (While this article isn't only about Terri, Judge Moore does address the issue in this interview)

Remove Dennis Kucinich's Feeding Tube! (Terry Schiavo's Case By Ann Coulter!)



TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; buttout; cultureofdeath; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; righttolife; schiavo; schiavothread; schindler; terri; terrischiavo; terrischindler
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To: Ohioan from Florida
I know for sure that I read other news sources reporting after the Wednesday November 5th Hearing where Judge greer said that the Schindlers could move forward with their case against having Michael be the guardian, that Judge greer gave them 10 days and it was also reported that Judge greer said that he wanted to have a decision before the end of this month.

This is why I have been doggedly pursuing "When is the next hearing" and why I continued for a full week to get anyone in the 6th Circuit Court in Florida to call me back and let me know when the next hearing is. I remembered that the news articles said that Greer was giving Michael 10 days to respond.

Probale to us mere mortals that means that Michale has to have the paper response in within 10 days.

Judge gree obviously has had a change of heart about getting this done by the end of the month since I was told today when I called that he is basically going to sit on this until the Jeb Bush case is decided.

There is something about Judge Greer that jsut does not add up. Judicial Watch said that he is the only Judge in America to rule in favor of death when a family had not been united in the decision.

I wish alternate news organizations, news organizations that investsigate, not ones who do a lazy job jsut by showing up in court and covering a vigil, somebody could find out what it is, that is making Judge greer act this way.

Even though I am not in Florida I can still contribute to another candidate ANY candidate who runs against Judge Greer. Somebody said he is up for re-election in November of 2004.

If I was in Florida I would get a gorup together and carry signs -Remember Judge Greer's rulings in the voting booth in November of 2004- I would be there every free chance I had by golly.

Gotta call it a night. I am busy for the rest of the week-end and won't have much of a chance to check in.


421 posted on 11/14/2003 11:29:00 PM PST by Lone Voice in the hinterlands
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To: drlevy88
Do you think the court will be open tomorrow to accept his papers? Tomorrow is the 15th. Maybe Greer will just give him a bunch of continuances or something like that. Kind of like the extension on filing a guardianship plan for 2001, which as of Sept. 2003 still had not been filed. (OK, I'll admit that's still speculative, and not verified fact yet.) The point is, Greer seems to be fine with cutting MS plenty of slack, but tells Ms. Anderson to stick with the truth and just the facts, please. OK, Judge Greer. Here's my 2 cents worth: How can it possibly be clear and convincing evidence of Terri's wishes IF she expressed a wish to not be hooked up to anything artificial, if at the time of her so-called wishes, the term "artificial" did not include food and water sustenance? How can that be CLEAR AND CONVINCING? If it were so clear, it would not be being called into question!
422 posted on 11/14/2003 11:33:29 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: floriduh voter
"This is why I have been doggedly pursuing "When is the next hearing" and why I continued for a full week to get anyone in the 6th Circuit Court in Florida to call me back and let me know when the next hearing is. I remembered that the news articles said that Greer was giving Michael 10 days to respond." - Lone Voice in the hinterlands

FV do you know or at liberty to say?

423 posted on 11/14/2003 11:37:25 PM PST by drlevy88
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To: Ohioan from Florida
How can it possibly be clear and convincing evidence of Terri's wishes IF she expressed a wish to not be hooked up to anything artificial, if at the time of her so-called wishes, the term "artificial" did not include food and water sustenance?

The answer would come back, dull as dishwater but deadly, that "she must have wished even what the law couldn't grant at that time." I.e. ignorance of future law is no excuse.

424 posted on 11/14/2003 11:39:39 PM PST by drlevy88
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To: Lone Voice in the hinterlands; MarMema
Goodnight! Thanks for hooking me up to that article. I had never seen the 10 days reported in anything I was reading, but I must have just missed it. I, too, have been waiting with baited breath to hear when they would schedule the next hearing. I'm glad you kept calling the courthouse to find out. We'd never know (that it's postponed indefinitely) if it hadn't been for your dogged persistence.

One more thing, and if anyone knows, please do tell. If Judicial Watch is correct in saying that Greer is the only judge to rule in favor of death when a family hadn't been united in the decision, then how did those other deaths by this same manner happen? Obviously some judge has ordered the tube removal before now. Like the Hugh Finn case, or what about Nancy Cruzan or Christine Bertilucci (sp?-I'm sure I got that last one wrong)? (Please forgive me Christine!)
425 posted on 11/14/2003 11:45:02 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Were these a case of the family wanting it but the state opposing?
426 posted on 11/14/2003 11:48:41 PM PST by drlevy88
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Even tho the other cases were judged by different judges, I think the poster meant no judge has ever made judgement on the assumption of someone's "say-so" in food/water cases-the others were respirators,(machines) not tube feeding.
427 posted on 11/14/2003 11:50:14 PM PST by oreolady (Have you reviewed your living will lately?)
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To: drlevy88
Something else about this bugs me. Is it not common knowledge that we humans only use 10-15% of our brain capacity? If this is so widely believed to be the case, then why do all those doctors out there who side with MS think that Terri is capable of so little right now? It seems to me that the medical profession readily admits that we don't understand so much of how the brain works, yet are willing to say that Terri can never recover from this. I don't understand the double-speak.
428 posted on 11/14/2003 11:51:17 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: oreolady
No, the cases I mentioned were tube-feedings just like Terri. They were not hooked up to other types of support. They also had exhibited this coma/PVS state. Some of them were even quite conscious. Look up a freeper named MarMema and click on her freep page. She has a whole list of these cases that are similar to Terri's.
429 posted on 11/14/2003 11:55:12 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: drlevy88
In some of the cases, some members of the family didn't want the feeding tube pulled, and others (amazingly, usually the side that was the beneficiary) DID want the tube to be pulled. They may not have disagreed whether the person was PVS or not. But they did disagree on whether or not pulling the tube should be allowed. Those judges eventually decided it was okay to pull the tubes.
430 posted on 11/14/2003 11:59:24 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Ohioan from Florida
The most the docs can claim is that they never saw anyone as bad as her diagnostics appear to be, come back to manifest consciousness before. Of course with the stories we hear now from people who were aware although "comatose" and came back, there must be some harrowing tales being told before the throne of God.
431 posted on 11/15/2003 12:02:49 AM PST by drlevy88
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To: drlevy88
there must be some harrowing tales being told before the throne of God.

I don't think that God can be any too happy about what He's hearing either!

432 posted on 11/15/2003 12:10:42 AM PST by Ohioan from Florida
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Hmm yes. Finn's case was one such split. What the sam hill did Klayton mean?
433 posted on 11/15/2003 12:25:24 AM PST by drlevy88
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To: sweetliberty
Do they have the authority to do that?

Looks like they might. From article in post #372:

Under federal law, the agency is granted strong investigative powers, including examining medical and court-sealed guardian financial records, and its findings of abuse or neglect would be conclusive and pre-emptive of any court or other agency determination, said Patricia Anderson, an attorney for the Schindlers.

Sound like they have the muscle for the job - just hope they have the will.
434 posted on 11/15/2003 12:41:02 AM PST by iowamomforfreedom (Why is it illegal to starve an animal but not a human being?)
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To: Ohioan from Florida
>>at the time of her so-called wishes, the term "artificial" did not include food and water sustenance? How can that be CLEAR AND CONVINCING?


VERY NICE catch. I had forgotten the law changed many
years AFTER her ahhhhh, 'accident', to include food and
water as 'artificial'.
435 posted on 11/15/2003 12:45:41 AM PST by Future Useless Eater (Freedom_Loving_Engineer)
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To: iowamomforfreedom
and its findings of abuse or neglect would be conclusive and pre-emptive of any court or other agency determination, said Patricia Anderson, an attorney for the Schindlers.

As much as I would like to see M$'s and GF's clocks cleaned clear out of the Milky Way, I wonder if this is literally so, or if it ought to be. There is no Federal court review even possible for this Goliath? The hero in this case could be the monster in another one.

436 posted on 11/15/2003 12:53:31 AM PST by drlevy88
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To: FL_engineer
And I understand it was Felos' lobbying and conniving that brought it about, while the case was in progress. Then he has the chutzpah to complain about Terri's Law "meddling in the court process." That figures. The minds of lawyers like that must be so compartmentalized that they look like a honeycomb.
437 posted on 11/15/2003 12:56:31 AM PST by drlevy88
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To: Robert Drobot
THANK YOU for your work on that compilation. The URL's will be a helpful addition, the 'icing on the cake'. I know it is a labor of love and concern -- hope you've gotten some rest in there somewhere!

May the efforts of those who have loved Terri through all these years, with God's grace and ability to work in hard hearts and closed minds, finally accomplish Terri's release. Peace.
438 posted on 11/15/2003 2:20:31 AM PST by cyn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Theodore R.
"As much as I think I know sometimes, I had never heard of "civil executions" until the Terri Schindler fiasco. Now I know that they occur all over and quite often."

I don't want to mislead you - I call Greer's ruling a 'civil execution' but in law, there is no such thing AFAIK, as it applies to putting a person to death through probate court. I do think the term fits the circumstances, though. Maybe calling it a Court-Approved Execution by a Former Zoning Board Lawyer would be most accurate. It still stinks though, no matter what.

439 posted on 11/15/2003 2:31:06 AM PST by msmagoo
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To: sweetliberty
I thought LKL was hosting the Schindlers, too, but fell asleep. Woke up in time to catch Ted Koppel's segment on the case.

Ted: Judge vacated the order(for stay) and Bush will have till Monday to submit a brief.

Clip of Randall Terry saying, "Morality and reality, and politics all converged into one moment where we, as a civilized people, said, NO, we are NOT going to starve this woman to death. We're not going to let this happen."

It was very moving, with footage of the vigil outside the hospice, with three women singing "How Great Thou Art."

Some talking head saying the push to pass a bill for Terri was political, for votes.

Then a clip of Jeb saying "I did what I think was right."

Then the hospice video footage, with singing, and a sign saying Starvation is Murder. A woman

Then Johnny Bryd saying his motto is to act, to lead, and Terri would be dead right now if he and the legislature hadn't.

On the whole, good coverage. Ending with Koppel saying the case is taking "center stage."

440 posted on 11/15/2003 2:52:04 AM PST by msmagoo
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