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Sen. Miller seeks to bust filibusters after 30-hour debate
AccessNorthGA ^ | 11/12/03

Posted on 11/12/2003 11:48:38 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

Among the elements in the U.S. Senate that frustrate Zell Miller _ and there are plenty _ perhaps none does he find more annoying than the fact 41 senators can kill any legislation, even if the other 59 support it.

The age-old rule allowing a strong minority of lawmakers in the upper chamber to filibuster _ essentially delay _ a bill to death has always irked the Georgia senator. Never has it irked him more than now, with fellow Democrats using the parliamentary technique to block four judicial appointments, all of whom he supports.

Filibusters in general and judicial filibusters particularly go on trial Wednesday as Republicans kickoff a 30-hour marathon debate designed to attract attention to the cause. When they finish, the Senate is expected to consider a rules change sponsored by Miller and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., that would outlaw the infinite filibuster of judges.

Miller is well aware of the ironic fate his measure will likely meet. Assuming Republicans have the votes to pass it, the rules change itself is expected to be filibustered by Democrats.

Right now the filibuster kind of runs under the radar and nobody really knows its going on, said Miller, who is retiring when his term ends next year. Someday, somebody a lot more articulate and younger and more forceful than I is going to get across to the American people just what in the world is going on here.

Millers wrath toward the filibuster is so strong that he devotes an entire chapter to it in his new book, A National Party No More: The Conscience of a Conservative Democrat. He says filibuster comes from the Spanish word pirate and argues thats a fitting translation for a majority seeing its proposals pillaged by the minority.

Although the bill being considered this week would apply only to judges, Miller wants to go much further. Last month, he introduced a bill that would abolish the Senate rule allowing for a filibuster with less than 50 votes. Earlier, he tried to push through a measure limiting filibusters to six or seven days and requiring only a simple-majority vote to cut it shorter.

Never has one of his proposals been considered close to passage _ at least close enough to withstand a filibuster. But Miller says the goal isnt necessarily to get the measure passed this week, or even before he retires. Its to plant the seed to get it changed in the future.

You want to protect the minority, want to give them a voice, but you cant let them stop an up or down vote or you shouldnt be able to, he said. Majority rule is the principle of free government everywhere except in the United States Senate. It doesnt make any sense.

Under the Miller-Frist bill applying only to judges, a nomination must have been pending for 12 hours before a senator can request cloture, a vote to end debate. The first time cloture is sought, it would take 60 votes, as is the case now. After that, there would be diminishing requirements of 57, 54, 51 and finally a simple majority of those present and voting.

Besides being a smaller body than the House, the Senate is often referred to as the worlds most deliberative body, with longer debates and more powers for the minority. Proponents of the filibuster say the parliamentary tool is a major part of that.

Miller and most Republicans, however, argue filibusters of judicial nominations arent part of the Senates rich parliamentary history. Until these four judicial nominees were tapped by President Bush, only one such appointment had been stalled with a filibuster _ President Lyndon B. Johnsons promotion of Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas to be chief justice in 1968. Johnson later withdrew the nomination.

This is a first, spanning the 200-year tradition of the Senate, said Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala. We need to keep the pressure on to get these judges confirmed. Unless we pass his legislation and change the rules, its not likely to change.

The 30-hour Senate talkathon on judges will begin Wednesday evening and go until Friday morning. At issue are nominations of four to various U.S. Appeals Courts: Alabama Attorney General William Pryor, Texas judge Priscilla Owen, Mississippi judge Charles Pickering and Hispanic lawyer Miguel Estrada.

The Republicans are consumed by those four jobs and ignore the 3 million jobs that weve lost over the course of the last three years under this administrations economic policies, said Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D.



TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: filibuster; marathon; natlpartynomore; nominees; zellmiller
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To: MikeWUSAF
If the Republican Senators truly believed in service they would keep the Senate in session throughout the holidays until the Dems finally gave up. I've already heard whining by Dems about possibly getting out late for the Thanksgiving Holiday due to the Republican filibuster. All the while our young men and serve night and day overseas through the holidays.

I would like to hear one good reason why this has not already been done? REALLY can some one tell me why Frist has not forced the Dems to a REAL filibuster? WHY? do some of you understand this?

41 posted on 11/12/2003 12:48:15 PM PST by reflecting
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To: Consort
By the dems knowing how to pick their fights.
(BTW, the dems hardly conceded the PBA ban, since they and the ACLU had a lawsuit filed the same day.)
The left KNOWS that the courts are the whole ball of wax.
That is the hill they have chosen to fight on.
So far, they are winning.
42 posted on 11/12/2003 12:48:39 PM PST by MamaLucci (Clinton met with a White House intern more than he did with his CIA director)
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To: Protagoras
oops. Do I have to leave? I voted for Zell.
43 posted on 11/12/2003 12:49:15 PM PST by eyespysomething
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To: MamaLucci
Some of us need to get it across to the Republican leadership that we also know the bench is the whole ball of wax and they had better start acting like it is!
44 posted on 11/12/2003 12:50:58 PM PST by reflecting
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To: MamaLucci
Yes, mainly because Conservatives don't believe in incrementalism...they want it all...right now...their way or no way.
45 posted on 11/12/2003 12:55:24 PM PST by Consort
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To: reflecting
I would like to hear one good reason why this has not already been done? REALLY can some one tell me why Frist has not forced the Dems to a REAL filibuster? WHY? do some of you understand this?

A real filibuster involves a senator taking the floor and talking on length, refusing to yield the floor to anyone else or to conduct further business. The Democrats really don't have to do this, because any time a Republican calls for the yeas or nays (taking a vote) a Democrat can simply object and stop the vote there. To end debate they would take a cloture vote, which the Dems have about 44 or 45 to vote against cloture and keep debate going. By a simple objection and voting against cloture, that's all the Democrats have to do. You would only use the filibuster when there are the votes to invoke cloture and you want to stop the Senate completely so no cloture vote can take place.
46 posted on 11/12/2003 12:55:39 PM PST by Galactic Overlord-In-Chief (Visit my website for my columns covering Louisiana and national politics: www.bayoubrawl.cjb.net)
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To: Congressman Billybob
The Constitution makes it clear that the "Advise and Consent" clause requires only a majority of the Senators present is sufficient to approve a judicial (or other) presidential appointment.

Then why can't the Republicans have most in chambers and then just voice vote? I have hear the Dems do that and not sure if a quorum was even there.

What is good for the goose, good for gander

47 posted on 11/12/2003 12:56:43 PM PST by The UnVeiled Lady
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To: Tunehead54
Actually I believe a senate rule can be changed with a simple majority and that is their plan.

You are right, but the Rats can filibuster the rule change, thus requiring 3/5ths again.

48 posted on 11/12/2003 1:01:37 PM PST by Aeronaut (In my humble opinion, the new expression for backing down from a fight should be called 'frenching')
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To: Congressman Billybob
If action is being held up in the Senate with an unconstitutional action (filibuster), why doesn't someone sue to let the courts determine its constitutionality? I understand that we need to be concerned with letting the activist courts do that, but is it a reasonable pursuit?
Advise and Consent should not be subject to this filibuster action of the Demon-rats.
49 posted on 11/12/2003 1:03:07 PM PST by WilDave
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To: Galactic Overlord-In-Chief
OK if I understand you - then why don't the Repubs. just refrain from asking for a vote? Would that not mean that the Dems would have to talk forever?
50 posted on 11/12/2003 1:03:56 PM PST by reflecting
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To: Galactic Overlord-In-Chief
I bet if Frist would say the Senate will not recess until we take a vote on all the Judges, then a vote would take place. I do not understand how a pre determined 30 hours of debate will be effective. No one will remember it a month from now. I guess the Republican are more concerned about angering some Socialist than doing what is best for this Country.
51 posted on 11/12/2003 1:08:27 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: Consort
>>>Yes, mainly because Conservatives don't believe in incrementalism...they want it all...right now...their way or no way.

Pure baloney. Need I remind you, this is a conservative website.

Both Reagan and Bush43 have pushed an incremental conservative agenda. Besides, appointment of moderate jurists to the USSC, will only get you more of the same. More O'Conner's and more Kennedy's. The object is for conservatism to triumph over liberalism. What is needed is more Scalia's, Thomases and Rehnquist's

52 posted on 11/12/2003 1:19:40 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: WilDave
Very, very seldom do the courts ever take action with respect to the operating Rules of either the House or the Senate. The reason for that reticence is clear -- separation of powers.

Most likely, the issue of the Senate violating the Advise and Consent Clause would be pitched out of court on its ear. Furthermore, the kind of judicial thinking that would lead any federal judge to get involved in this issue is EXACTLY the kind of judge and thinking that constitutionalists have no use for.

Those are two excellent reasons why this issue should never see the inside of a courtroom. The third reason is that the nuclear option will solve the issue with only a majority vote in the Senate.

John / Billybob

53 posted on 11/12/2003 3:04:53 PM PST by Congressman Billybob (www.ArmorforCongress.com Visit. Join. Help. Please.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Rule changes require a 2/3rds vote

NO!, Rule changes only require a simple majority. The problem is with only a 1 seat majority, there are enough RINOs that are against the rule change to kill the measure.

54 posted on 11/12/2003 3:31:19 PM PST by HapaxLegamenon
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To: Reagan Man
Pure baloney.

Nope.

Need I remind you, this is a conservative website.

Nope. What I said applies to countless postings here and you know as well as I do that it is accurate.

55 posted on 11/12/2003 3:37:43 PM PST by Consort
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To: expatpat
Think of a small Democrap majority in the Senate ramming through a bunch of Commie judges.

Been there Done that. already. Of course they had a lot of help from hoodwinked republican presidents. david Sooter comes to mind.

56 posted on 11/12/2003 6:28:21 PM PST by itsahoot (The lesser of two evils, is evil still...Alan Keyes)
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To: ModelBreaker
Actually, it's not.

There was never a bill brought to the floor in regards to "Hillary Care."

The rule change would outlaw filibusters on JUDGES, which is (Judicial nominee filibusters) nearly unprecedented.

Get your facts straight.
57 posted on 11/12/2003 6:32:47 PM PST by Guillermo (Proud Infidel)
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To: Prince Caspian
Don't let his "facts" get in the way of the truth.

"Hillary Care" never even made it out of committee, much less onto the Senate floor.
58 posted on 11/12/2003 6:35:55 PM PST by Guillermo (Proud Infidel)
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To: cinFLA
The Bill never made it to the floor, it didn't even make it out of Committee.
59 posted on 11/12/2003 6:36:55 PM PST by Guillermo (Proud Infidel)
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To: TrappedInLiberalHell
From everything I've seen, a southern Democrat is further to the right than a northeast Republican.

What several Southern Conservatives have been saying for awhile. Of course nobody listens to us, we 'need' Republicans shipped in that the RNC wants for Senate. We're not allowed to vote on people that actually live in this state. Oh no, they have somebody 'better' for us. And now that the Republicans actually hold the Senate, this is what we get....

60 posted on 11/12/2003 6:40:27 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice)
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