Dean 'Appalled' That Florida Lawmakers Saved Schiavo

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 11/07/03 | Jeff Johnson

[MSCASEY]

Good News! Jay Seklow had allot on today about Terri's case on his radio show! I was not sure if you had heard this or not already!

MCD

[Graymatter]

>>If you were an emergency dispatcher and you had one ambulace available to dispatch but you got two calls at the same time, one for someone who was probably dead and one for someone who might still be alive, to which call would you dispatch the ambulance?

I'll bite. Who died to keep Terri alive?

[sweetliberty]

No, I had not heard. Is there a transcript, or can you give us the gist of it?

[Wampus SC]

"We all do die. There is a time that comes. I do not think is right to allocate scarce resources to those whose time has come."

The person in question does not have a terminal illness. If her food and water were denied, she'd die of starvation/dehydration, but not of a terminal condition.

"allocate scarce resources" - I hope that doesn't mean letting someone live or making them die is to be a matter of cost effectiveness and the bottom line. I don't want those kind of decisions made by bean counters.

[Wampus SC]

"Or phrased another way, Why is it that they only want you to die and never them?

Because Dr. Dean is not just content to tell people how to think and how to live; now he wants to determine who should live and who should die."

There are probably some who get a big thrill from the power to bring death to those who can't fight back.

[The Other Harry]

I'll bite. Who died to keep Terri alive?

Bite hard.

It is close to impossibe to prove any specific instance, but let me assure you that there are only so many resources to go around. They get allocated on various bases. They aren't always logical.

As of now, Terri has that room. Maybe she wants it, maybe she doesn't. We don't know. We do know that someone else needs it.

In the EMT training I have been taking, they hint around that sometimes it is better to let someone die. This is not the sort of thing they would ever admit to or that would ever show up in a book. It is, however, a fact.

You know what triage is?

If you don't know, you don't want to know. It involves saving lives. It isn't particularly pretty. You sort bodies according to their chances. Their apparent chances. Your best guess at the time and under the circumstances.

This is not just done in war.

[Graymatter]

The world's just one big massacre scene.
Yes, I know what triage is. It is no substitute for philosophy, and it's not a way of life.
Terri's parents don't want her in that bed any more than you do. They just have better reasons than "Maybe she wants it, maybe she doesn't. We don't know."

Come out of the jungle, Harry-san.

[The Other Harry]

"allocate scarce resources" - I hope that doesn't mean letting someone live or making them die is to be a matter of cost effectiveness and the bottom line. I don't want those kind of decisions made by bean counters.

I don't think it is really like that. Nobody is counting beans.

I'll be redundant:

You've got three ambulances, You can transport up to 12 patients. You've got 30 injured in a car accident.

Which ones do you take?

I'll explain it. You make three piles. Ones that are likely to live anyway, ones that are probably going to die or who are dead, and ones that you might be able to help.

The third group goes. It goes as fast as you can get it there. The other two stay on the pavement.

You have a better idea?

[huck von finn]

One thing I admire about Dean is that takes clear positions. I don't agree with most of them, but at least you know where he stands. That is more than I can say for Arnold.

Dean has some positions that are actually conservative (in the old sense of the word.) These will become to the fore more often should he win the nomination and run in the general election.

[The Other Harry]

It is no substitute for philosophy...

Philospophy is something that is nice to think about.

I don't know about Terri, but ten years on life-support seems to me like long enough, I wouldn't want it. That's not so say that she doesn't.

Cutting her off food does seem cruel.

[huck von finn]

Because Dr. Dean is not just content to tell people how to think and how to live; now he wants to determine who should live and who should die.

Dean didn't do that--Jeb Bush just did. The government did. Not many true conservatives I know are comfortable with the government determining who should live and who should die. Dean's point was that the government should not intrude into such things. He's right.

[EGPWS]

Dean accused Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and Republican state lawmakers of interfering in a "private matter" when they passed "Terri's Law,"

The gall for a Democrat to convey an issue of government intervening in one's personal affairs.

[jwalsh07]

Dean has some positions that are actually conservative (in the old sense of the word.) These will become to the fore more often should he win the nomination and run in the general election.

You mean like raising taxes and socialisisng health care? Or his so called backing of gun rights? Or perhaps you mean that his kill'em on the way out approach to abortion is congruent with inalienable rights?

[Beck_isright]

"Dean 'Appalled' That Florida Lawmakers Saved Schiavo"

I'm appalled that his mother didn't do us all a favor and abort him.

[jwalsh07]

Judge Greer ORDERED Teri Schiavo's guardian to remove her feeding tube. If you support that order you are a statist of the first order.

[huck von finn]

That cartoon is a riot! Thanks for posting it.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Dean's point was that the government should not intrude into such things [as who lives and who dies]

Well, the government would intrude if I decided to sacrifice my neighbor to Baal in my backyard. Even with my neighbor's express written and witnessed consent. And it would not just be right to, it would be [expletive deleted] right to!!!

[Graymatter]

>>Cutting her off food does seem cruel.

Yes, it does. You seem to favor leaving her exposed on a windswept crag. And I would too, provided her parents had the coordinates to go get her and take her home.

Incidentally (not!), Terri isn't on life support. She's been isolated and deprived of rehab for over ten years. Go read up on it at www.terrisfight.org.

A lot of folks here have differing ideas on policy, on what to do about the needy, sick, disabled in society. But Howard Dean was talking about a specific case, Terri Schiavo's. Policy and law have failed Terri. Really, if you read up on the case, you will see for yourself.

[huck von finn]

It would intrude if I shot my neighbor, too, but that's a false analogy.

[HiTech RedNeck]

But I just walled my neighbor up inside a brick tower in my backyard and he died naturally! What do you #$%*&#^%#& police think you're doing with those handcuffs? HEY!!!!