Posted on 11/06/2003 7:31:54 PM PST by republicanwizard
Astounding Triumph of Republicanism.
THE NORTH RISING IN INDIGNATION AT THE MENACES OF THE SOUTH
Abraham Lincoln Probably Elected President by a Majority of the Entire Popular Vote
Forty Thousand Majority for the Republican Ticket in New-York
One Hundred Thousand Majority in Pennsylvania
Seventy Thousand Majority in Massachusetts
Corresponding Gains in the Western and North-Western States
Preponderance of John Bell and Conservatism at the South
Results of the Contest upon Congressional and Local Tickets
The canvass for the Presidency of the United States terminated last evening, in all the States of the Union, under the revised regulation of Congress, passed in 1845, and the result, by the vote of New-York, is placed beyond question at once. It elects ABRAHAM LINCOLN of Illinois, President, and HANNIBAL HAMLIN of Maine, Vice-President of the United States, for four years, from the 4th March next, directly by the People.
The election, so far as the City and State of New-York are concerned, will probably stand, hereafter as one of the most remarkable in the political contests of the country; marked, as it is, by far the heaviest popular vote ever cast in the City, and by the sweeping, and almost uniform, Republican majorities in the country.
RELATED HEADLINES
ELECTION DAY IN THE CITY: All Quiet and Orderly At the Polls: Progress of the Voting in the Several Wards: The City After Nightfall: How the News Was Received: Unbounded Enthusiasm of the Republicans and Bell-Everett Headquarters: The Times Office Beseiged: Midnight Display of Wide-Awakes: Bonfires and Illuminations
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
"There was an animated discussion in the Senate yesterday, on the organization of the Supreme Court." - Charleston Mercury, Jan. 31, 1863
"A Supreme Court is being organized, and Congress is considering, in secret session, the propriety of sending Commissioners to France for the special object of bringing about an alliance. Judge Monroe, of Kentucky, hopes to become one of the Judges of the Supreme Court." - Charleston Mercury, March 19, 1862
Now tell me, non-seq. If the Congress was conspiring to supress the court bill, why did they debate it several times? And if the Davis Administration was so against it, why was JP Benjamin attacked for trying to push the court bill through? The answer is simple: Davis supported the court but the majority of Congress did not.
Why would the secretary of state organize the supreme court?
"There was an animated discussion in the Senate yesterday, on the organization of the Supreme Court."
From the records of the confederate congress:
The Senate resumed, as in Committee of the Whole, the consideration of the bill (S. 3) to organize the Supreme Court of the Confederate States.
On the question to agree to the amendment proposed by Mr. Clay, viz:
Add the following independent section:
"Sec. 6. That sections forty-five and forty-six of an act of the Provisional Congress entitled "An act to establish the judicial courts of the Confederate States of America," approved sixteenth March, eighteen hundred and sixty-one, be, and the same are hereby, repealed,"
After debate,
On motion by Mr. Semmes.
The Senate resolved into executive session.
The doors having been opened,
On motion by Mr. Yancey,
The Senate adjourned.
It couldn't have been too spirited if the congressional record didn't record it. And note that the senate adjourned without any action on it that day. Or during the next session. Or the one after that. Or the one after that. Etc. etc.
"A Supreme Court is being organized, and Congress is considering, in secret session, the propriety of sending Commissioners to France for the special object of bringing about an alliance. Judge Monroe, of Kentucky, hopes to become one of the Judges of the Supreme Court." - Charleston Mercury, March 19, 1862
Apparently not. The matter had not been mentioned in the court since March 11, where the matter was placed on the calender, and would not be brought up again until March 26 when discussion on the matter was postponed at the request of Senator Semmes. The it remained unmentioned until September where discussion was postponed yet again.
If the Congress was conspiring to supress the court bill, why did they debate it several times?
It was debated hardly at all. Discussion of it was killed almost every time it was brought up on the floor. Why didn't Davis or his allies fight for it. That is, assuming that they really wanted it in the first place.
Nonsense. You have provided nothing. For all we know Davis spoke against the court or mentioned the real Supreme Court. The only quote you have provided is a gratuitous, and no doubt insincere, request that a couth be established. And he never mentioned the matter to the congress again.
'The Confederate Congress authorized suspension of the writ of habeas corpus for only about one-third of the war's duration, and President Davis actually suspended the writ of habeas corpus or imposed martial law over only a fraction of the territory within those seventeen months. Statutes limited suspension to the period from 27 February 1862 to 13 February 1863, and from 15 February 1864 to 31 July 1864. By contrast, President Lincoln without congressional authorization suspended the writ of habeas corpus in some places within two weeks of the fall of Fort Sumter, and in certain cases it was suspended throughout the North for twice as long as the Confederacy allowed suspension.'Sounds like he nailed Lincoln.
Mark E. Neely, Jr., Southern Rights: Political Prisoners and the Myth of Confederate Constiutionalism, Charlottesville, VA: University of Virginia Press, 1999, pp. 9-10
Sounds like the court was flooded with cases. </sarcasm>
Do you think the descendents of innocent men, women, children, and prisioners-of-war that were slaughtered, raped, had their homes and crops destroyed, their every possession stolen by invaders, and those left to starve by union troops are going to CHEER for them?
As I noted previously, the index to Davis' collected works found online specifically identifies them as the Confederate States supreme court. Thus he could NOT have been talking about the yankee one. As for talking against the court, that is an unreasonable and unfounded assumption for you to make. While one cannot say with certainty that all of those documents advocated it absent a trip to the library to check, one can say that it is more likely than not based upon the fact that he does exactly that in the written record we DO know of right now.
The only quote you have provided is a gratuitous
Nonsense. It is about as explicit as one can get, and to date you have provided absolutely ZERO evidence as to why we should not believe it.
and no doubt insincere
Evidence please?
And he never mentioned the matter to the congress again.
Evidence please? For all you know, one of those 8 other documents could very well have been a letter to Congress.
Don't ask me - that was Foote's charge, not mine. Look up his speech if you want to know though. The newspaper clipping does prove one thing though. Judah Benjamin, a senior member of Davis' cabinet, was actively pushing for a Supreme Court.
Apparently not. The matter had not been mentioned in the court since March 11
Curious. The date on that newspaper was March 19, or eight days earlier. Since they did not have televisions back then it was not at all uncommon for news to take several days to travel. Thus, newspapers would often report on events in the capitol about a week after they happened. The Charleston Mercury was published in Charleston, meaning the news from the capitol had to get there from Richmond. Therefore it is not at all surprising that they reported on a debate from March 11th a week later on the 19th.
It was debated hardly at all.
The newspapers say otherwise. Live with it.
Why didn't Davis or his allies fight for it.
Was Judah Benjamin not an ally of Davis?
They knew it was going to be a long discussion, and because of the Federal blockade, the South no longer had enough deoderant to go around.
It's up to you to disprove it. I won't accept less than six sets of sworn testimony.
"Sixteen district courts provided the backbone of the confederate judicial system...Appointed in each district was one judge, one district attorney, one marshall, and one or more clerks of the court. The court staffers included deputy marshals, criers, commissioners, and a few auxilary officers. Most auxilary officers and attendents were paid from monies derived from court fees, a fact which makes it most difficult to estimate their number. Thus, when Confederate jurisdiction was widest, there were sixteen justices, sixteen district attorneys, sixteen marshalls, an estimated fifty-four clerks of court, and a miscellaneous group of criers"
-- From Paul P. Van Riper and Harry N. Scheiber, "The Confederate Civil Service" in Journal of Southern History, 1959
I. EVIDENCE SUPPORTIVE OF THE CONTENTION THAT DAVIS DESIRED A COURT:
1. Davis explicitly called for a court in his 1862 State of the Union Address and said so in the plainest of English.
2. Davis' Secretary of State Judah Benjamin pushed Congress to pass the court bill. This is reported in the Charleston Mercury on Dec. 24, 1863.
3. Congress repeatedly took up the court bill from its introduction through 1864, blocking or voting it down each time for the explicit purpose of restraining Davis' power to appoint judges. This is documented in the congressional record, the newspapers, and virtually every good historical account of the CSA congress.
4. Davis enthusiastically filled the Confederate District Court benches with appointments almost immediately after their creation by Congress. His first appointment was Alexander Clayton on May 11, 1861 and they continued throughout the war, filling 16 benches total. If Davis was opposed to creating a judicial system, it stands to reason that he would have hesitated in filling these benches or even left them vacant but he did not.
5. Davis' collected works contain at least 8 other documents with explicit references to the issue of creating a confederate supreme court. In light of the other evidence it is more likely than not that they are supportive of creating a court rather than opposed to doing so.
II. EVIDENCE SUPPORTIVE OF THE CONTENTION THAT DAVIS OPPOSED A COURT:
...
Those are the facts that have been put forth in this debate to date. See the disparity, non-seq?
The people.
Ditto for the Davis regime. And what avenue for appeal did these unfortunate political prisoners have? None whatsoever.
Why? This is the man who said that so long as a law achieved its objective then it was constitutional. He saw no need for a supreme court, never fought for a supreme court, why should we believe he spoke in favor of one in any of the references you claim he made.
It is about as explicit as one can get, and to date you have provided absolutely ZERO evidence as to why we should not believe it.
And you have provided absolutely ZERO evidence why we should. He did nothing to promote the court in the Senate, never once mentioned it in any further messages to congress, let the matter wither and die on the vine, just like he wanted it to.
Evidence please? For all you know, one of those 8 other documents could very well have been a letter to Congress.
Here are the Journals of the confederate congress. Davis messages are there. There isn't any other reference to the court in any other message from Davis that I've been able to find. Have at it.
Perhaps it was because that as secretary of state for a country without diplomatic relations with any other country in the entire workd he had nothing else to do? Or maybe your reference is incorrect. In any case one would assume that if any member of the Davis regime would push for a court it would be the attorney general. He had nothing else to do, either.
The newspapers say otherwise. Live with it.
The journal of the confederate congress disagrees. Live with it.
Was Judah Benjamin not an ally of Davis?
As a cabinet member Benjamin could be granted a seat in the senate for the purpose of discussing any measure relating to his department. The supreme court fell outside his authority so he couldn't very well participate in the debates on that. Didn't Davis have any allies in the senate? There weren't any that seemed willing to fight against the continuous stonewalling done by those you claim were Davis opponents. Maybe all 26 were Davis opponents?
Could you meet the same standard?
But no supreme court.
...and a miscellaneous group of criers
One of whom had to be Davis, if your accounts of his intentions are to be believed.
But not, apparently, by anyone who could have done something about such an appointment.
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