Thank you ! That is great ! You tell your brother and his pals that
they have our COMPLETE SUPPORT over here !!
Posted on 11/06/2003 6:31:20 PM PST by Calpernia
Letters To Leaders
All messages are published with permission of the sender. The general topic of this message is Defense/Military:
Subject: Lt. Col. Allen B. West
To: Sen. Charles Schumer
November 6, 2003
Sir,
With all due respect, this is the very first time I have ever written to a Senator. With regards to this fine officer and the plight he is in. I have attached the article below if you are unaware of his situation. As an American, and as a veteran myself, I am utterly disgusted, shocked, and ashamed that our Army is harassing this man and is even considering a court martial. These same people who are requesting this mans court martial would probably have something quite different to say if it were their loved ones lives who were saved by this mans actions. I can not express to you how utterly disgusted and extremely angry I am at this outrageous and unjust treatment of an officer who saves lives by using such tender tactics as these to gain information from an enemy who does not abide by, or respect any code, or human right. I mean are you kidding me! So he fired a weapon near his head and made a threat, BIG DEAL! LIVES WERE SAVED!!!! Hello? Is this thing on? Are you hearing me!!! Are we such a nation of weaklings that we would have our interrogators offer prisoners candy popcorn and maybe a comfortable seat on the couch while they decide if they want to cooperate or not! Consider the tactics of our enemy, yeah, I won't even go there as they are too gruesome and inhumane to even mention. This absolutely ludicrous and unjust action being considered against this American fighting man who saves lives and who gave so many years of his life in that effort is an abhorrent black mark on the face of what is increasingly becoming and embarrassing country to have sworn my allegiance to. And no, I am not ashamed of our president and his decision to go to war. I am NOT one of those. No, in fact I LOVE our president and I am all for sending a message to radical religious groups who have committed so many blatant acts of war against our country in the name of their religion. No Sir, what makes me ashamed is to read of our nation treating it's heroes, like this Man Col. West, like a criminal when his only action was to save lives. It sickens me. Absolutely sickens me and almost makes me wish I had never served. Almost. Let me just leave you with this last thought so that you understand. I say almost as I never served in our country's armed services for you, or any fed. No government agenda was ever a motivating factor in my serving. As though I was subordinate to the government and obeyed the orders thereof, my service was to the people who had gone before me and stood and fought and died for my right to impart this to you now. It is for their sake, and for their honor that I did serve. And it is for their sake, and for their honor that I am still proud to be an American and I will still stand and fight should my country call me to do so. I do not know how to make this any more plain to you Sir, this is an injustice that needs to be rectified. PLEASE do what you can on this honorable mans behalf. Also, thank you Sir for having taken the time.
Sincerely Stanley SrA. USAF 91-95
'Heroic' officer clings to faith Facing charges after foiling ambush plot, 'devastating' to be regarded as a criminal
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35447
Guilderland , NY
I think the world of you Poohbah. But this is war, and we have a ton of troops being killed.
Let me throw out this scenario to you;
If our troops have a missle launced at them, are chasing down the "launcher" and are trying to apprehend that person and "think" a person is covering for them and that 10 of our troops lives are in IMMEDIATE danger, do you think they have a RIGHT to interrogate IMEEDIATELY BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY that person to find out where the person is with the weapon?
~OR~ do you think our guys should just sit there like sitting ducks and die so they can play by some percieved rules? Rules that the OTHER guys never plays by I might add!!
I would also like to know where these "interrogation" people you mention come from? Do we have such people that can show up on a dime? How many are "in" Iraq?
The situation in Iraq is much more complex than this. And we shouldn't be tying the hands of our troops in this way. Not when they are dying in the numbers they are dying in. Not when they are fighting the kind of war they are fighting.
This Lt. Col did nothing wrong, and everything right. He saved the lives of his men. He got information out of an informant. The Iraqi's need to know our troops mean business, not that they are bound by ridiculous rules like the prisoner had previously thought.
Thank you ! That is great ! You tell your brother and his pals that
they have our COMPLETE SUPPORT over here !!
Good grief, we probably lost more troops to DUI accidents stateside. Hyperbole doesn't become you.
If our troops have a missle launced at them, are chasing down the "launcher" and are trying to apprehend that person and "think" a person is covering for them and that 10 of our troops lives are in IMMEDIATE danger, do you think they have a RIGHT to interrogate IMEEDIATELY BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY that person to find out where the person is with the weapon?
When people start saying "by any means necessary," it usually means "by any means I personally find convenient, without respect to legality, effectiveness, or ethics."
So, I'm sorry, the answer to that question is "No." We may NOT use "any means" we wish.
I would also like to know where these "interrogation" people you mention come from?
The Corps Military Intelligence Brigade.
Do we have such people that can show up on a dime?
Not always, but the situation was apparently not as urgent as initially described.
How many are "in" Iraq?
Answer: a bunch.
The situation in Iraq is much more complex than this. And we shouldn't be tying the hands of our troops in this way.
Hey, we can always use the methods Germany used in Lidice after the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich. THAT will put an end to those attacks!
Not when they are dying in the numbers they are dying in.
I have news for you: they're dying in MUCH smaller numbers than in other wars we have fought and won without resorting to such tactics.
Not when they are fighting the kind of war they are fighting.
"When you set out to destroy monsters, take care lest you become a monster yourself. And when you look into the abyss, the abyss looks back at you."
This Lt. Col did nothing wrong, and everything right.
He apparently Article 15'd two soldiers who beat the prisoner because they violated orders, and then pulled this stunt in violation of those same orders.
"Do as I say, not as I do" is eminently wrong.
Notice that this was found in the course of an UNRELATED Inspector General investigation. The Army does not launch IG investigations for grins & giggles.
In other words, there is a LOT more going on here than the good colonel has seen fit to tell us.
He saved the lives of his men.
Sorry, that is not factually certain.
The Iraqi's need to know our troops mean business, not that they are bound by ridiculous rules like the prisoner had previously thought.
Excuse me, but there are very specific reasons for the orders he was expected to obey. Once you take that first step onto the slippery slope of situational ethics and moral relativism, each additional step gets easier and easier to take.
But many of his supporters here seem to accept that he did it; they just think that it's ok. Some have even suggested that he get a medal, or be promoted. I, and some others on the "against" side, as you would say, take the view that if he did it, it's wrong.
Good grief, we probably lost more troops to DUI accidents stateside. Hyperbole doesn't become you.....Poohbah
That's a little harsh, Poohbah.
It is true that U.S. casualties in this war are very low by historical standards. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the American Home Front in 2003 knows as much about U.S. military history as they know about the history of the Parthian Empire.
America's enemies are correct that today's American Home Front does not have the stomach for American war casualties. The Liberal media and the Democtrats do everything in their power to keep it that way.
In World War II, a Kasserine Pass was only a bump on the road to victory for the American Home Front. In today's America, 6,000 casualties in one battle would have the American Home Front demanding an immediate end to the "Quagmire-Failed War".
It matters not that, historically, we have lost very few casualties in Iraq. What matters is that the American Home Front believes we have lost "a ton" of casualties. What may be "hyperbole" to a student of military history is a "The Truth" to the American Home Front.
Once the American Home Front loses it's nerve, we have lost the war and nowadays it does not take too many casualties to reach that point. You can can then talk to them about casualties at Cold Harbor or Antietam and they will have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Yes, it is true that U.S. casualties are probably lower than DUI deaths. However, it is also true that sustaing that level of casualties on a long term basis is all it takes for the American Home Front of 2003 to lose it's nerve. Once that happens, the war is over and America has lost the war. Twenty years from now, forty-something year old Iraq War veterans will be complaining over beers about how they won the battles but the politicians, the press and the Home Front lost the war.
When people start saying "by any means necessary," it usually means "by any means I personally find convenient, without respect to legality, effectiveness, or ethics." So, I'm sorry, the answer to that question is "No." We may NOT use "any means" we wish. ....Hey, we can always use the methods Germany used in Lidice after the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich. THAT will put an end to those attacks!
Firing a gun next to an illegal combatant as compared with the SS executing 173 men as their families watched? What was that about hyperbole?
I am sure that Vets_Husband_and_Wife did not mean the execution of most of the male population of an entire village.
However, if you were an illegal combatant captured by the U.S., would you prefer that the Military Intelligence Brigade types:
A. Scare the hell out of you.
OR
B. Use this tactic ......... US ships Al Qaeda suspects to Arab states.............These countries – Egypt, Syria, and Jordan, among them – use torture, which, some officials suggest, extracts information much more quickly than more benign interrogation methods.
OK. Are you JimRob? Do you have the authority to mandate what we can and cannot say on this topic?
Worse yet, I enouraged Lt. Col Allen, Angela AND his lawyer to sign on here.
LTC West and his attorney need to focus on the real audience--the officers hearing his case. I do know for a fact that the Staff Judge Advocate and commanding officers do NOT appreciate anyone attempting to conduct a trial in the media--whether it be prosecutor or defendant--prior to an Article 32 hearing.
I am disgusted with you all. You think Angela needs to be confronted with this when I promised help?
You do NOT have the authority to commit me or anyone else other than yourself to a particular position on any topic. You show up spouting nonsense, I'll call you on it.
They are getting enough back stabbing.
Oh, boo-hoo, the guy is getting an Article 32 hearing. In other words, they're going to try and figure out whether this guy should be bound over for trial.
Is this the respect you show to a Lt. Col who put his life on the line to defend OUR country?
Does America have reason to expect that LTC West would obey lawful orders from his superiors?
That LTC West should receive zero consequences for disobeying lawful orders...especially when personnel in his unit have already been punished for violating those same orders.
That is nonsense.
With all due respect, Calpernia, you posted an opinion Letter to the Editor published by the Washington Post.
How was anybody else on this thread supposed to know that no other opinions were welcome or that you had invited the West family and their attorney to follow the thread?
I am sorry if my attempts to argue the law in favor of Lt. Col. West "disgusted" you.
"They are getting enough back stabbing."
An Article 32 hearing is NOT back stabbing.
It's really bizarre to see "conservatives" saying that officers should be allowed to pick and choose which orders they want to obey.
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