UFO still puzzles 30 years later (Coyne Incident)

Mansfield Journal ^ | 10/18/2003 | Russ Kent

[SteveH]

MANSFIELD -- Thirty years ago tonight, strange things were happening in the skies over north central Ohio.

A close encounter in Mansfield, that has since become known as "The Coyne Incident," is still raising eyebrows among believers and UFO investigators.

[Quix]

An interesting response to the Air Force text.

You really sound like you have read next to nothing regarding the 'powers that be.' Have you even read or did you hear Ike's speech warning about the 'military industrial complex' in the most sober of terms? I suppose you would think he was an ignorant, uninformed, low ranking, inexperienced sort of person who wouldn't really know anyway?

Perhaps you are unaware that The President's security clearances are lower than a number of people working with the 'platforms,' ET's etc.? Many clearance levels are permitted only after AT LEAST 15 YEARS IN FEDERAL SERVICE IN PROVEN SECURE JOB DESCRIPTIONS, ROLES.

That there are those 'along-side' or extra governmental or whatever label you'd care to assign to such forces--that there ARE such forces exercising undue and overwhelming control over various institutions in our culture rather startlingly in defiance of government and at least independent of government--that such is part of our reality is not really a rocket science level of awareness. Nevertheless, I can certainly believe you would be unaware of such.

You also clearly have not been keeping a running commentary watchfulness over various factors, variables of the UFO phenomena--including the governmental and other pronouncements. AS I PREDICTED TO MYSELF AND SOME OTHERS 35 YEARS AGO; AND AS OTHERS HAVE PREDICTED IN VARIOIUS WRITINGS IN THAT SPAN . . . there has been an incremental increase in the quality and amount of disclosure details--as one would expect if the bare bones outlines of the reality were true.

Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that there is a point at which critical mass in disclosure has been achieved and more or less all the cats are out of all the bags or sufficient numbers of cats are out that the remaining cats in the remaining bags don't make a lot of difference. That peak of the disclosure graph must occur during our lifetime. Nothing else is remotely logical, IMHO.

Well, given your alluded to spiritual biases, I can appreciate that you would decline to face such realities.

Your loss. Given the degree and duration of such losses--one would logically want to err on the conservative side. I guess you really aren't very interested in logic, after all.

[Quix]

Oh, I understand your perspective, I think, quite well.

It just doesn't seem to allow for even the minimal realities as I understand them.

But hey--to each his own. Perhaps you'll never have occasion to have to adjust your constructions on reality.

On the other hand . . . .

[you have different fingers].

[Quix]

Are you also one of those who declares that God does not exist because you haven't seen Him?

Your apriori biases are fascinating. It will be interesting to see the masses of people wandering around with many of their hearts failing them for fear when their constructions on reality come crashing wholesale to dust and ashes.

Supposedly that's ONE of the postulated reasons governments have been so reluctant to allow the info out--just the mind fragmenting chaos that they expect would result on the part of many who's constructions on reality are not permeable enough to face being expanded THAT much.

[Gunrunner2]

Just a point of order:

>>"Perhaps you are unaware that The President's security clearances are lower than a number of people working with the 'platforms,' ET's etc.? Many clearance levels are
permitted only after AT LEAST 15 YEARS IN FEDERAL SERVICE IN PROVEN SECURE JOB DESCRIPTIONS, ROLES."<<

Where did you get this?

There are three levels of classification: Confidential, Secret and Top Secret. Within TS there are caveats, but none of this "above TS" stuff some people think.

As far as a president is concerned, he has the ultimate security clearance as Commander in Chief. He has access to whatever he wants.

As far as this 15-yrs service allegation, where did you get this?

A clearance is a clearance, and no length of time is a requirement for a security clearance "level" (whatever you mean by that). There are caveats that require a clearance to know what they are, but nothing even comes close to what you are referring to--no way.

"The lack of proof just proves how good the cover up is." And this, my friend, is where the true believers lose it.

Someone, somewhere, makes an allegation about clearances and such and the absence of any proof otherwise, and in direct contradiction to all published data and "insider" knowledge, just proves how good the "secret" is kept.

Just a point of order.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

Have you considered the impact of ET's that do not believe in God? I don't believe in ET's and not sure about the latter.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

Actually the President is probably the only person who can get a clearance for anything, even though he may not be able to pass the tests ususally used to qualify for the top clearances. Being elected automatically qualifies you, even if you are a drug addict, have a secret lover, or are a dual citizen with an enemy state, say France.

Therefore the therory that the government is hiding the proof of ET's is obviously wrong. If it were true Clinton would have sold the story to the National Enquirer to raise money for legal fee's during the Lewinsky scandal.

[Gunrunner2]

Indeed, sad but true.

[XJarhead]

How do E.T.'s relate at all to Ike's speech? Didn't some of these alleged visits occur during his Administration? Why not just blow the lid off it overtly rather than making some cryptic reference to the military-industrial complex? Either he knows about the ET's, in which case he would either blow the whistle or shut up, or he doesn't. The middle ground of referring to a military-industrial complex makes no sense.

Many clearance levels are permitted only after AT LEAST 15 YEARS IN FEDERAL SERVICE IN PROVEN SECURE JOB DESCRIPTIONS, ROLES.

The idea that any such restrictions cover the President and Congress as an institution is nonsensical. The only legal force any such restrictions would have are what they are given by law. So, in addition to finding the statute that specifically forbids contact with ET's, how about finding that one? Because I don't believe for a moment that there is any enforceable law that legally bars the President from having access to any classified material. I was in the military, and I'm a lawyer and acquainted with the federal justice system. I'd love to see that law, because it doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist because it cannot legally exist. I've had enough of a clearance to know that there are levels of clearance whose titles/names are themselves classified. That means they cannot be mentioned in any law, since to mention them would itself disclose classified material. Absent such a law, such restriction is legally unforceable against the President because it would not be based on a legally enforceable law or regulation. And probably would be unconstitutional even if it did exist.

Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that there is a point at which critical mass in disclosure has been achieved and more or less all the cats are out of all the bags or sufficient numbers of cats are out that the remaining cats in the remaining bags don't make a lot of difference. That peak of the disclosure graph must occur during our lifetime. Nothing else is remotely logical, IMHO.

The fact that there are so many people who still don't buy it shows that we haven't reached that point, and aren't close. I'd add that since detection methods, cameras, video, etc. have all increased tremendously in recent years, you cannot tell whether there is truly more contact, or the same amount of contact being reported more efficiently.

Well, given your alluded to spiritual biases, I can appreciate that you would decline to face such realities.

I have no idea what biases to which you are referring. I think linking ET's, the military-industrial complex, and Satan is tin-foil hat stuff. ET's may exist, the "complex" exists at least in some form, and Satan may exist. But the linkage of all three is just loony. You claim that people that don't see things your way are blind to evidence. Fine -- what is the evidence linking Satan to ET's or to the military industrial complex. And "I think there's a connection" isn't evidence.

It's one thing to say "it's possible that ET's have visited Earth." Sure, that's possible, so I wouldn't discount the possibility. But when you add to it the air of certainty, or even probability, that you give it, then link it to Ike's speech, an alleged government-wide conspiracy that crosses national borders for completely unexplained motives, and Satan's plan to dominate the world, you've left the realm of reasonable inquiry and entered pure fantasy.

[XJarhead]

By the way, the idea that the information has been continuously suppressed through multiple changes in government because of some consensus that us rubes couldn't handle it is condescending and unfounded.

If the gov't. were to announce that there really were ET's that have visited Earth, I'd think that would be pretty cool. Very exciting, and would open up whole new possibilities for humanity. I'd want to know what they said, why they came, what they could teach us, etc. Why do you assume that you are one of the elite, superior few capable of handling it? In fact, I'll bet you us more skeptical types would react far better to a reasoned proof of existence than would you "true believers".

[SevenDaysInMay]

Bump for Art Bell.

[Gunrunner2]

Agreed about the “impact” of such a revelation as ET’s mucking about planet earth.

Survey’s were done by a member of the National Institute of Discover Science (http://www.nidsci.org/), and by Roper.

NIDS is the organization chartered by the FAA to receive UFO reports.

The survey’s examined the question on how would people react if ET arrived. They also conducted a religious impact study. (John Alexander, is an interesting guy and reasonable. His wife is a character. Nice lady, heck of a nice person, just a bit off center).

Here is the central web page for the “impact” survey: http://www.nidsci.org/news/roperdayafter.html

Here is the link to the impact on the people survey (pdf) (internet and Roper survey): http://216.128.67.116/pdf/nids_dayaftersurvey.pdf

Survey results (pdf): http://216.128.67.116/pdf/internet_vs_roper.pdf

Anyway, here is the link to the religious survey (pdf): http://www.nidsci.org/articles/alexander/survey_religion.html

Link to the statistical analysis (pdf): http://www.webcom.com/kelleher/articles/alexander/statistical_analysis.html

Link to the response analysis: http://www.webcom.com/kelleher/articles/alexander/response_analysis.html

Here is link to a Roper survey that examines the public and the rate of some sort of “unusual experience.” http://www.nidsci.org/news/roper_surveys.html

If you visit their web site you can see NIDS are at least trying to maintain some degree of honesty and intellectual discipline.

[auggy]

I have often thought the same. Especially, the demon part.

I wasn't aware Reagan was a believer in things like this.

[Sam Cree]

Interesting that you attended conferences where remote viewing is discussed. That concept is so far out from ordinary perspective that I generally find it difficult to give credence to it. However, if the US has studied it, they must have thought it worthwhile. Is it, in your opinion?

As for the UFO subject, I've long found it fascinating. Sometimes I'm fairly skeptical, other times I have a haunting feeling that there is a reality behind it. Can't say whether I hope there is or not, but if there is, I'm probably happier if it keeps its distance.

I'm outdoors alot, on the water, sometimes in the woods, but have never seen anything to make me wonder.

[XJarhead]

Interesting survey. What is particularly revealing is that while most people seem convinced they'd handle it just fine, a majority also thinks that other people would have a much tougher time. What that suggests is that the assumption that other people would freak out, and that "I'd handle it better than most", is generally flawed.

Nobody has yet even proposed a coherent, logical explanation for why such things have been covered up by so many different governments of widely differing political persuasions for more than half a century. Not one former leader of any country has even come out and admitted "the truth". But I guess it makes life so much more fun and interesting to assume a massive conspiracy that only a select few are clever enough to discern. Bleh.

[Justa]

"Contrails -- the white line clouds created from condensation by passing jets -- caused you to be sick?"

Aerial dispersion is a great way to dump toxic waste.

[Sam Cree]

Pretty sure that kind of a revelation would make me freak out. Not to mention what it would do to the stock market.

I still find the subject extremely fascinating.

[XJarhead]

Yeah, I've seen a lot of toxic waste trailers pulled up to my plane when I'm leaving on a trip. Those airlines just love loading that stuff in there. And what's really incredible is that not a single member of a ground crew or flight crew from any airline has ever exposed this massive conspiracy.

Although I suspect they just teleport the toxic waste into those hidden dispersal units just before takeoff. That way, no one need ever know....

[3Lean]

It is a lot of fun to turn your posting around and see how much sense it makes that way

"UFO's have persistently demonstrated:

1) knowledge of cameras from significant distances.
2) capacities to render them inoperable.

AND


There ARE a lot of VERY hard-to-explain video tapes that have passed analysis at INDUSTRIAL LIGHT AND MAGIC and similar special effects studios. "

So the UFOs can disable the cameras, yet there are a lot of video tapes?????


Try again.

[Gunrunner2]

As far as RV goes, was recruited for the program when it was still in the black. Turned them down, as I had a choice: a) go fly F-15E's, or b) "use the force, Luke."

I chose F-15E's. I am/was a fighter pilot after all.

"They" were looking for people that were not wild-eyed true believers willing to believe anything, but they also didn't want true non-believers that denied everything. Reasonable approach.

I fell in the middle, neither a true believer nor a non-believer. I just don't know.

I think the US government was into it for 20-yrs because they had some apparent successes. That said, I still don't know if I "believe" but I do know that a vast majority of people into this type of stuff are true believers and claim all sorts of weird stuff as fact. This is no good, and that is why I hold more respect for the researchers that actually RESEARCH and attempt to hold to scientific protocols and physics, rather than the emotive types that take any coincidence as proof.

I met hundreds of the true-believers at those conferences and they do tend to be passionate and this passion affects their judgment.

I’ve had some very interesting conversations with the 20% that were reasonable researchers, but I’ve also had some very tiring conversations (mostly one-side with me listening) with the true believers. True believers would do well to lighten up and accept that a great portion of their passion is hype, fraud, made up or just plain misinterpretation of actual events. Instead, they hold every allegation as proof.

For example, last conference had an RV person hold up a drawing that showed her RV session depicting two buildings and an aircraft running into the building. She said she made the drawing in ’95 and alleged this was absolute proof of her predicting 9-11. Great. I pointed out that she could hold that picture for 50-yrs or more and sometime in that time frame some plane, somewhere, would hit a building. She didn’t accept that.

Another guy did a group RV session “into the future.” He asked what everyone had for their impression of the future. Everyone said that future was chaos; society was broken down, agrarian, less technology, etc. He said those impression hold all over when he does this exercise. I pointed out that ALL books and movies of the future are apocalyptic, like Mad Max, Terminator, the Bible Revelations, etc, and I also pointed out that society IS becoming less civilized and less social. Therefore, is survey was impeached. He was having none of that. Insisted he was right and we are all doomed.

These types of people do more damage than they know.

They are entertaining, and most are darned interesting in a harmless sort of way.

Cheers.

[Al Simmons]

I saw this on TV recently. Mexico City videos show the moving blurry apparitions, including some of them literally disappearing "into thin air" in broad daylight. A scientist explained that such (gaseous?) phenomena are common near active volcanoes - and the sightings were all bunched up during a period just prior to a major eruption of the long-dormant volcano Mt. Popocatepetl in the mid-1990s. They have stopped since.

Sorry to disappoint all the UFO conspiracy theorists, but if you look carefully enough, you can explain just about all of these phenomena.

Cordially, Al