Posted on 02/18/2021 1:41:34 PM PST by TPIDerek
President Joe Bidenâs administration is lending support to a study of reparations for African-Americans, with the effort part of new Democratic legislation to create a commission on the controversial issue.
The Associated press reported on Wednesday that a House panel heard testimony on a bill to create the commission that would examine the history of slavery in the U.S. and offer solutions, like reparations.
According to Reuters, Biden stated last year that âwe must acknowledge that there can be no realization of the American dream without grappling with the original sin of slavery, and the centuries-long campaign of violence, fear, and trauma wrought upon Black people in this country.â
(Excerpt) Read more at thepoliticalinsider.com ...
let’s go over soem more from your agenda driven sites-
[[The “Irish slave” myth has been widely discredited (July 2020)
“We’ve seen numerous claims online that white Irish people were enslaved for hundreds of years.
However, the idea of “Irish slaves” is a common myth, and claims of white Irish slavery have been continually discredited for decades.
In 2016, dozens of historians signed an open letter condemning several publications for the repeating of the myth.”]]
Dozens you say? Dozens have disproved it by simply claiming it false? Lol- nice try!
[[Firstly, the picture attached to this claim is more likely of Belgian coal miners, although the exact source is unclear.]]
This is your debunking? Really?
[[The figure of 300,000 Irish people sold as slaves (which many of the posts say happened between 1641 and 1652) was found by Reuters to be impossible, based on the total number of people estimated to have migrated from Ireland to North America and the West Indies over the century]]
LOL- Yep- so based on some agenda driven person’s ‘estimate’ the numbers couldn’t possibly have been true- This isn’t proof- this is speculation and personal opinion.
[[Several publications note that, in recent years, the Irish slave myth has become a popular tool used by white supremacists to discredit the experiences of black people.]]
And there we go again- Gaslighting tactics to demean the opposition- implying that everyone who cites the book is a white supremacist- therefore they must be lying- broad brush painting- no real facts to actually debunk! Noone is discrediting what the black people went through in any of the sites i linked to-
[[Away from the article, a key part of the myth is a misunderstanding of the indentured servitude many Irish peoples found themselves in. ]]
Annnd here we go again- playing word games to ‘debunk’ what actually happened-
[[Irish peoples were shipped across the British empire during the 17th and 18th centuries to provide labour and service for a defined number of years, in return for passage, food and lodgings, and eventually freedom. Many, unlike black slaves, did this by choice, seeking new lives and fortunes in the colonies. For others, servitude happened because they were political prisoners, or forcibly deported or sold.]]
All of this has been debunked by the historical records that show that NO- they were not able to work off their debts, they were sold, beaten to death, worked to death, refused freedom by the courts who kept extending their ‘contracts’ while the slaves had NO possibly way to fight it- etc-
“In the past, white slavery was acknowledged as having existed in America only as “indentured servitude.”
Such indentured servants were, for the most part, convicts, who served a term of four to seven years laboring on the farms, plantations, and estates in Virginia, Georgia, Maryland, and the Carolinas in exchange for their freedom. But they represented only a small fraction of the hundreds of thousands of whites who remained slaves for life. Such slavery was hereditary: children of the white slaves also became chattel without hope of freedom”
“In George Sandy’s laws for Virginia, Whites were enslaved “forever.” The service of Whites bound to Berkeley’s Hundred was deemed “perpetual.””
“Throughout the colonial period, white slaves remained the main labour force on the Virginia and Maryland plantations, outnumbering Africans by as many as four to one.”
“1652 alone, the population of the Irish fell from 1,466,000 to 616,000. That’s because roughly 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. But that’s over 50% of their entire people.”
“In the Calendar of State Papers, Colonial Series; America and West Indies of 1701, we read of a protest over the “encouragement to the spiriting away of Englishmen without their consent and selling them for slaves,”
” John Pory declared in 1619, “white slaves are our principle wealth.”
People from the British Isles were kidnapped, put in chains and crammed into ships that transported hundreds of them at a time. Their destination was Virginia Boston, New York, Barbados and the West Indies. The white slaves were treated the same or worse than the black slave. The white slave did not fetch a good price at the auction blocks. Bridenbaugh wrote in his accounting on page 118, that having paid a bigger price for the Negro, the planters treated the black better than they did their “Christian” white servant. Even the Negroes recognized this and did not hesitate to show their contempt for those white men who, they could see, were worse off than themselves.”
“At least 70,000 white men, women, and children from England and Ireland were shipped to the colonies to be sold as slaves on the auction block during the 170 years of British rule.”
These were NOT indentured servants- contrary to your weird insistence otherwise- They were stolen and sold as slaves- and spent their lives in salvery
Again- your links are trash- they don’t debunk anything except maybe stupid memes that people put out and some claims by others that didn’t actually do research, but made claims that couldn’t be backed up by historical records- Those folks do NOT represent hte historical facts, and the broad brush used to ‘discredit’ the historical records using those folks is dishonest agenda driven nonsense-
How about showing some actual debunking of the author’s quoted historical facts and accounts?
What you here characterizes as "white slavery" in North America in the 1600s & 1700s was legally called "indentured servitude", meaning voluntary and for a limited time or "prisoners" meaning sentenced for a certain time.
The fact that some did not outlive their indenture or sentence did not make them "slaves for life", much less make their "slavery" inherited in the same way as African slaves once their slavery was fully defined after around 1700.
Those are simply facts, and none of your historical accounts dispute them.
Indeed, your links are careful to point out that one reason your alleged "white slaves" were treated worse than Africans was precisely because their indentures were for limited times, after which they could walk free.
So their "owners" felt it necessary to get maximum production from them in the shortest time possible.
Bob434: "The left who have the political agenda are the ones trying to bastardize the history by denying it ever happened DESPITR CLEAR RECORDS that it did."
Once again, if "it" refers to indentured servants and prisoners, then "it" is not in historical dispute.
The existence & numbers are fully recognized by history.
But if "it" pretends to mean permanently inherited chattel slavery of the type endured by African slaves, then "it" is a lie that no reasonable person can agree to.
So who does agree to such lies?
Why, racists, of course, and nobody else.
Bob434: "This is called gaslighting, and it’s a nefarious tactic of the left to bu,be, people into disbelieving what they know to be true your links are nothing but liberal trash."
Says our very own Gaslighter In Chief, Bob434.
Bob434: "That whole article was nothing but personal, liberal agenda driven opinion.
They provided no historical records to back up anything he opined about, whereas the writers on white slaves provided all kinds of resources references, records, personal diary entries, statements by governors, kings, slave owners slaves themselves etc."
Right, your mythologizers provided anecdotal stories showing that some people were abused, especially prisoners, nobody disputes that.
But any claims that these stories of abuse totaled up to massive numbers of "white slaves" in a status equivalent to the permanently inherited chattel slavery of Africans, is pure lies.
There's no data to support such claims and no explanation of how, when or where those alleged "white slaves" were eventually freed.
Bob434: "As I said, your inks are agenda driven liberal trash sites.
Show me the proof that the historical records writtrnagout int the books have been debunked.
So far you give me sites laddened with personal opinions and hyperbole."
Sorry, FRiend, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof and so far you've provided no proof -- none, zero, nada -- for your extraordinary claims that massive numbers of "white slaves" were kept in permanent inherited chattel slavery (like Africans) in Britain's 13 American colonies during the 1600s and 1700s.
Sure, nobody denies some people were abused, but the bottom line is this:
Bob434: "Dozens you say?
Dozens have disproved it by simply claiming it false? Lol- nice try!"
Sorry, but you didn't even try, you didn't read their letter and have no idea what they really said.
Regardless, the burden of proof is on those who make extraordinary claims, and so far, FRiend, you've proved nothing.
Bob434 quoting: "The figure of 300,000 Irish people sold as slaves (which many of the posts say happened between 1641 and 1652) was found by Reuters to be impossible, based on the total number of people estimated to have migrated from Ireland to North America and the West Indies over the century"
Bob434: "LOL- Yep- so based on some agenda driven person’s ‘estimate’ the numbers couldn’t possibly have been true-
This isn’t proof- this is speculation and personal opinion."
Your claim that 300,000 Irish people were sold as slaves between 1641 and 1652 is based on nothing except somebody's vivid imagination.
Your suggestions that such numbers of "white slaves" arrived in the 13 North American colonies at that time is as dishonest as can be.
Bob434: "And there we go again- Gaslighting tactics to demean the opposition- implying that everyone who cites the book is a white supremacist- therefore they must be lying- broad brush painting- no real facts to actually debunk!
Noone is discrediting what the black people went through in any of the sites i linked to-"
"Gaslighting" claims our Gaslighter in Chief, Bob434.
It's rubbish because the whole purpose for you pretending that "white slavery" existed in massive numbers in the United States is to demean the unique experiences of African Americans and allege your own claims to whatever reparations "pie" gets carved up.
It's a racist lie, nothing else.
Bob434: "All of this has been debunked by the historical records that show that NO- they were not able to work off their debts, they were sold, beaten to death, worked to death, refused freedom by the courts who kept extending their ‘contracts’ while the slaves had NO possibly way to fight it- etc-"
Some were abused, some did not outlive their indentures or sentences, but to claim that massive numbers of Europeans in the United States were treated the same as African permanent inherited chattel slaves, that's a racist lie, pure & simple.
Bob434 quoting: [Indentured servants] "represented only a small fraction of the hundreds of thousands of whites who remained slaves for life.
Such slavery was hereditary: children of the white slaves also became chattel without hope of freedom”
“In George Sandy’s laws for Virginia, Whites were enslaved “forever.” "
And yet again: George Sandys represents only 10 years in the earliest days of the Virginia colony, from 1621 to 1631 a time when the total number of settlers was just a few thousand, life expectancy was very short and the whole idea of "slavery" was largely undefined.
There never were "hundreds of thousands" of "white slaves" in North America, in George Sandys time, or any other.
Bob434: "How about showing some actual debunking of the author’s quoted historical facts and accounts?"
Your words are pure gaslighting, since you've quoted no historical facts or accounts to "prove" that massive numbers of "white slaves" were held in permanent inherited chattel slavery, as were Africans.
You're here to sell us a Big Lie, and nobody's buying it, FRiend.
[[Sorry, but you didn’t even try, you didn’t read their letter and have no idea what they really said.]]
Yes I did. The e re is nothing there but inuendos and personal opinions, unlike the history I pointed to. Since you are now just goin g to keep repeating the same no sense over and over, ill simply post what I have already posted to refute what you are saying. The claims of white slavery are NOT extraordinary claims as everyone back then knew it was going on. The extraordinary claims are the ones co ing fro the agenda driven liberal who are trying to bastardize history for political purposes. The history I. The books have the evidence to back them up, but your agenda driven side buries their heads I. The sand and pretends it doesn’t exist.
let’s go over soem more from your agenda driven sites-
[[The “Irish slave” myth has been widely discredited (July 2020)
“We’ve seen numerous claims online that white Irish people were enslaved for hundreds of years.
However, the idea of “Irish slaves” is a common myth, and claims of white Irish slavery have been continually discredited for decades.
In 2016, dozens of historians signed an open letter condemning several publications for the repeating of the myth.”]]
Dozens you say? Dozens have disproved it by simply claiming it false? Lol- nice try!
[[Firstly, the picture attached to this claim is more likely of Belgian coal miners, although the exact source is unclear.]]
This is your debunking? Really?
[[The figure of 300,000 Irish people sold as slaves (which many of the posts say happened between 1641 and 1652) was found by Reuters to be impossible, based on the total number of people estimated to have migrated from Ireland to North America and the West Indies over the century]]
LOL- Yep- so based on some agenda driven person’s ‘estimate’ the numbers couldn’t possibly have been true- This isn’t proof- this is speculation and personal opinion.
[[Several publications note that, in recent years, the Irish slave myth has become a popular tool used by white supremacists to discredit the experiences of black people.]]
And there we go again- Gaslighting tactics to demean the opposition- implying that everyone who cites the book is a white supremacist- therefore they must be lying- broad brush painting- no real facts to actually debunk! Noone is discrediting what the black people went through in any of the sites i linked to-
[[Away from the article, a key part of the myth is a misunderstanding of the indentured servitude many Irish peoples found themselves in. ]]
Annnd here we go again- playing word games to ‘debunk’ what actually happened-
[[Irish peoples were shipped across the British empire during the 17th and 18th centuries to provide labour and service for a defined number of years, in return for passage, food and lodgings, and eventually freedom. Many, unlike black slaves, did this by choice, seeking new lives and fortunes in the colonies. For others, servitude happened because they were political prisoners, or forcibly deported or sold.]]
All of this has been debunked by the historical records that show that NO- they were not able to work off their debts, they were sold, beaten to death, worked to death, refused freedom by the courts who kept extending their ‘contracts’ while the slaves had NO possibly way to fight it- etc-
“In the past, white slavery was acknowledged as having existed in America only as “indentured servitude.”
Such indentured servants were, for the most part, convicts, who served a term of four to seven years laboring on the farms, plantations, and estates in Virginia, Georgia, Maryland, and the Carolinas in exchange for their freedom. But they represented only a small fraction of the hundreds of thousands of whites who remained slaves for life. Such slavery was hereditary: children of the white slaves also became chattel without hope of freedom”
“In George Sandy’s laws for Virginia, Whites were enslaved “forever.” The service of Whites bound to Berkeley’s Hundred was deemed “perpetual.””
“Throughout the colonial period, white slaves remained the main labour force on the Virginia and Maryland plantations, outnumbering Africans by as many as four to one.”
“1652 alone, the population of the Irish fell from 1,466,000 to 616,000. That’s because roughly 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. But that’s over 50% of their entire people.”
“In the Calendar of State Papers, Colonial Series; America and West Indies of 1701, we read of a protest over the “encouragement to the spiriting away of Englishmen without their consent and selling them for slaves,”
” John Pory declared in 1619, “white slaves are our principle wealth.”
People from the British Isles were kidnapped, put in chains and crammed into ships that transported hundreds of them at a time. Their destination was Virginia Boston, New York, Barbados and the West Indies. The white slaves were treated the same or worse than the black slave. The white slave did not fetch a good price at the auction blocks. Bridenbaugh wrote in his accounting on page 118, that having paid a bigger price for the Negro, the planters treated the black better than they did their “Christian” white servant. Even the Negroes recognized this and did not hesitate to show their contempt for those white men who, they could see, were worse off than themselves.”
“At least 70,000 white men, women, and children from England and Ireland were shipped to the colonies to be sold as slaves on the auction block during the 170 years of British rule.”
These were NOT indentured servants- contrary to your weird insistence otherwise- They were stolen and sold as slaves- and spent their lives in salvery
Again- your links are trash- they don’t debunk anything except maybe stupid memes that people put out and some claims by others that didn’t actually do research, but made claims that couldn’t be backed up by historical records- Those folks do NOT represent hte historical facts, and the broad brush used to ‘discredit’ the historical records using those folks is dishonest agenda driven nonsense-
How about showing some actual debunking of the author’s quoted historical facts and accounts?
[[ “Gaslighting” claims our Gaslighter in Chief, Bob434.
It’s rubbish because the whole purpose for you pretending that “white slavery” existed in massive numbers in the United States is to demean the unique experiences of African Americans]]
Enough with the lies. That is a flat out lie. Noone is demeaning anyone, except your side is demeaning what the white slaves had to endure by denying it ever happened like the historical records say it did. This isn’t a “one or the other, but not both at the same time” scenario. What BOTH slave groups went through was horrendous. Your liberal site over and over attack the character of the historians by spouting this idiotic lie.. the authors themselves even stated explicitly that they were NOT diminishing what the African Americans went through,, they were just pointing out a forgotten history that is being buried by the agenda driven left who can’t have and “competition to their “only black Americans were tortured as slaves” nonsense. So stop with the liberal lies.
You know, I went through you history briefly, and it’s c.ear you are here to to pick fights with other freepers over all kinds of crap. You y posts are chockerblock full of arguments that are nonsense. When folks try to point it out to you, you immediately devolve the conversation into personal attacks like you did in this discussion. You have called me racist several times now, and continue to do so and you falsely accuse me of trying to dimish what the black Americans went through. I point out that that is a tactic of gaslighting, which it is, and you I’m emediately say “nuh uh, you are gaslighting” which is just further nonsense.
I have provided links to site discussing the HISTORICAL RECORDS, and you provide nothing but personal opinions based on nothing more than more personal opinions as your “proof”.
If you don’t wish to purchase the books and discover the truth for yourself, and you’d rather sit around being argumentative ignorantly as a result, then that’s your business. But I’ve about had it with your petty insults and false accusations about my Character, capiche?
I’m not interested In your links that attempt to deny what took place by providing g nothing n
But personal opinions. I deal with facts. When someone has historical records that back up what they are saying. That is a worlds difference to someone who tries to disprove it with nonsense. Rejters saying it couldn’t have happened because someone “estimates” that there weren’t that many, that is nonsense. neat isn’t proof, that is pure speculation, based on personal opinions driven y an agenda. Your Reuters did not disprove anything, and an objective observer would have seen right through their nonsense. You want to glow onto opinions and hold them out as proof that is your business, don’t expect any objective person to fal. For that crap. The fact that you have to keep pointing to blatant leftist sites that are desperate to erase what white slaves went through because it might, in the minds of small minded agencies, who can’t accept that white slaves suffered tre,the, ALSO, might take the spot,ight off the black Americans plight, is pathetic. BOTH races suffered tremendously. But your side can’t stand any competition at all because it cuts into their narrative.
You sir are the one trying to diminish what the white slaves had to go through, a d also what the white “indentured servants” WHO WERE LIED TO had to go through. You and your ilk deny the records, deny the personal testimonies, and are trying to dismiss what took place by playing word games that everyone who went through the experience know do NOT represent what took place.
Either grow up and quite falsely accusing me of racism or take a hike. Not interested in discussing anything with someone who spouts such blatant ignorance as that
[[It’s rubbish because the whole purpose for you pretending that “white slavery” existed in massive numbers in the United States is to demean the unique experiences of African Americans]]]]
You know what Joek- i’ve had enough of your liberal idiocy- I asked you before to grow up- but obviously you aren’t going to - so take your idiotic false claims of racism and take a hike- and learn what gaslighting means- you’ll soon discover the only one engaged in it was you-
Yes. Bring before us former slaves. They should be compensated. Their progeny however have had the opportunities to better themselves. Nothing for them.
You have repeated endlessly your false claim that huge numbers of "white slaves" were treated as badly as African slaves came to be.
You've claimed there is massive evidence for such "white slavery", but in fact you've posted nothing beyond what history already knows -- white prisoners and indentured servants were sometimes abused and did not outlive their sentences or indentures.
There is no evidence anywhere to suggest that large numbers of "white slaves" were kept in inherited chattel bondage generation after generation based on some physical characteristic such as the color of their skin.
All your insulting gaslighting cannot change that.
I see you haven’t even begun to learn what gaslighting is. The ONLY ONE engaging I. Gaslighting tactics is you! Noone else in this thread is trying to clai that something g that happened didn’t hPpen. The only one trying to claim that white slavert wasn’t a problem is you.. the only one trying g to undermine what white slaves went through is you.. not once have I or the authors tried to undermine what bla d k folks went through. Not once have we claimed that they didn’t suffer. Not once have we tried to clai. It didn’t exist.. the only one doing those things is you!
The only one committing the ignorant tactics of the left, gas,ighting, and twisting g evidence into ridiculous “explanations” is you. Sad that you want see 3ven that basic fact. When you get facts disprovi no the fact that Irish were slaves and disproving the clai s of the authors lemme know. Till then I Wil. Take his historical facts over your gaslighting every time
Going through your posting history even just a few pages has shown me that you engage in This crap quite a bit. I also noted that Most people that you Launch into personal attacks on, and argue ridiculous arguments with,
just ignore you.
So, you want the .astt word, which seems very important to you for some reason, the go right ahead. I don’t care to discuss the issue with you NY further. Al. You have done is gaslight throughout this whole thread, the turn around with you fingers planted firmly in your ears yelling “I know you are but what am I?” So get your last tiresome nonsense post in, then buzz off
I asked you to grow up. And to learn what gaslighting means. Obviously you are unwilling to do either. Since you won’t do either,, We are done
And yet... and yet, in all those nonsense words you posted is not one single fact to confirm your ridiculous claim that huge numbers of "white slaves" existed in the 13 North American colonies in inherited chattel bondage similar to that of African slaves.
So, 100% of your argument consists of that one word, "gaslighting".
Sad.
Note to s3lf: All I get from him is blah
Blah blah,, “nuh uh” and “I know you are but what am i?” And repeated lies about the historical records that the authors found in their research. Gaslighting, causing someone to disbelieve the facts by browbeating them and telling them it never happened. The only one co mitting that attrocity in this thread is joek. His “I know you are but what am i’s? Not Withstanding
Guess he ain’t gonna read the book, nor learn what gaslighting means, otherwise he’d know that the argument was not about gaslignting, but about his nonsense arguments and ridiculous “explanations” trying to downplay the facts that were recorded. The books confirm the facts with actual historical records,, unbastardized by agenda driven leftists hell bent on gaslighting descendents of white slavery, regardless of how many “nuh uhs” the left say.
We’ve actually already grappled with these issues through the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments, numerous Civil and Voting Rights acts, and an amendment forbidding poll taxes.
The only thing each person needs to grapple with is what’s in his own heart.
Because "blah" is all you can comprehend, "blah" is all, literally, you can see.
Bob434: "Blah blah,, “nuh uh” and “I know you are but what am i?” "
Right, if you call me ridiculous names, I'll respond with those same names right back at you, so why bother?
Bob434: "And repeated lies about the historical records that the authors found in their research. "
The "repeated lies" are all coming from you, FRiend.
No historian has claimed, as you do, that massive numbers of "white slaves" existed in Britain's 13 North American colonies in generation after generation of inherited chattel slavery similar to that of African slaves.
Bob434: "Gaslighting, causing someone to disbelieve the facts by browbeating them and telling them it never happened.
The only one co mitting that attrocity in this thread is joek.
His “I know you are but what am i’s? Not Withstanding"
The only gaslighting on this thread comes from Bob434 in making outrageous claims about alleged "white slavery".
Bob434: "Guess he ain’t gonna read the book, nor learn what gaslighting means, otherwise he’d know that the argument was not about gaslignting, but about his nonsense arguments and ridiculous “explanations” trying to downplay the facts that were recorded. "
No facts were ever recorded to support your ridiculous claims here.
Actual historical facts regarding prisoners and indentured servants are not in dispute.
Bob434: "The books confirm the facts with actual historical records,, unbastardized by agenda driven leftists hell bent on gaslighting descendents of white slavery, regardless of how many “nuh uhs” the left say."
And there it is: Bob434's real political agenda here, "descendants of white slavery" want their "fair share" of the "reparations pie."
But first they have to gaslight us into believing their historical fantasies really happened.
That's why we see endless nonsense insults from Bob434 and complaints about "denials", but no actual facts to support his ridiculous claims.
Do yourself a favor a d go learn what gaslighting means. The o y o e committing it is you. I tried to explain that to you since you won’t go look it up yourself, but evidently even explanations escape your comprehension
[[Right, if you call me ridiculous names, I’ll respond with those same names right back at you, ]]
Lol more “I know you are but what am i” and immaturely trying to justify it
You see now why folks don’t discuss anything with you joek?
[[That’s why we see endless nonsense insults from Bob434 and]]
You’re gaslighting. That is a fact, not nonsense. I explained it to you several times. You seem I capable of even understanding what it means.
Keep denying though, it s amusing
[[Because “blah” is all you can comprehend, “blah” is all, literally, you can see.]]
Lol, scraping the bottom of the barrel with that asinine comment
[[No facts were ever recorded to support your ridiculous claims here.]]
Gazlighting 101
And in the mean time you’ve produced not one word of historical evidence to support your ridiculous claims regarding “white slavery”.
It’s all just insults & gaslighting.
Sad.
[[ And there it is: Bob434’s real political agenda here, “descendants of white slavery” want their “fair share” of the “reparations pie.”]]
Well, if slaves bet reparations, and white were slaves as,proven by historical records and eyewitness testimonies, and court records showing denials of contracts, and by governors and kings own statements Bout what was really going on, and by actual slave owners who owned white slaves, I would think they deserved it, but apparently joek thinks only black folks should be paid anything. Appzrently joek has an arbitrary threshold that omits white slave descendents from getting anything, proving that what has been said all along I. This thread, that j9oek and the left have a political agenda which dictates they must gaslight and deny white slavery ever existed is true
Keep spin ing joek, again, your denials and ridiculous “explanations” to dismiss the facts are amusing
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