Posted on 02/15/2016 9:57:09 AM PST by entropy12
The World Trade Center came down during the reign of George Bush, Trump growled. He kept us safe? That is not safe. Technically true, but, as is so often the case with Trump, the details came second to theme, and the theme went far beyond 9/11 or the gasps and boos Trumps comments brought. Trump slapped W on Iraq, too. The war in Iraq was a big, fat mistake. They lied, he said of Dubyas administration. They said there were weapons of mass destruction. There were none found.
Trump is saying that, under George W. Bush, the Republican Party allowed its understanding of politics to be corrupted. For whatever reason, under Bush, the GOP became a party that let self-aware rhetorical posturing dictate the way policy was formulated. The result was failure across the board. Worst of all was the ensuing failure of memory as Republicans forgot the winning arts and sciences. In so doing, they enabled America to lose its way in the hall of mirrors — and lose its greatness.
This is a dagger to the heart of the Bush legacy.
(Excerpt) Read more at theweek.com ...
I was also for the war but I expected a clear victory. He went in with guns blazing and then turned into a namby pamby Wuss.
People ended up losing their lives for nothing and Obama made sure we really lost the war.
I too was an initial supporter of the Iraq invasion. I went along with the Bush idea that we would be welcomed and that they were ready for a US base in their country. I thought at the time that Iraq was the easiest way to gain a toehold in the ME. Our intel was so bad that things went wrong almost from the beginning.
Bush made several compounding mistakes, as have been mentioned up thread. No plan for the country, misunderstood their opposition to our values, ran up the debt without any fiscal sense. Nation Building crap. He ended up being a disappointment in my mind.
Now we learn how much the donor GOPe class had to do with it. I was one of the fools who bought into the argument and now feel betrayed by my party. Hence my vote for Trump (or Cruz, but primarily for Trump)
Now Trump is playing a poker hand. He is betting that the people of SC will agree with him and reject the support that “W” is bringing to JEB. In the process (from Rush) he is attempting to gain from cross-over democrats. This is a dicy bet, but I would not discount the strategy. Trump has seen several outrageous positions become the mainstream among the candidates. This time he is attempting to cut out all of the GOPe stand ins in one election.
Even the most ardent supporters of the Bush administration should have known the whole think was a fraud when the new Iraqi constitution included a provision that establishes Islam as the official state religion.
You can blame Obama for a lot of things, but this isn't one of them. When Obama removed the last U.S. military personnel from Iraq, he was simply meeting the terms of the agreement between the U.S. and Iraq that was signed in November 2008 by George W. Bush.
Interesting theory re Saddam. I too supported GWB. Hindsight is way too clear, and going forward often obfuscated by lack of facts. I loved that GWB did something vs the very ineffective dithering that is currently how we operate.
I never suggested that Obama handled Iraq properly, but that isn’t the argument in question. Bush and the Neocons created a disaster in Iraq long before Obama came to power.. we were in IRAQ longer than we were in Japan post WWII.... that’s an insane thing. There was never any doubt that the largest most modern military in the world would rapidly conquer Iraq, the fact they had ZERO plan on how to handle things once the active war was over was insane.... and many many many bad decisions were made even if you allow that the going in happened.. and this was all before Obama... and they all helped to bring about Obama.
No one, that I know of, has ever put forth the argument that abandoning Iraq was a good long term move.
Obama has his own Iraq war... it was the Arab Spring.. where he advocated that various “dictators” leave, naively ignoring the fact that these people kept their nations stable and radicals in check. The entire region is far worse off and less stable today thanks to Obama’s foreign policy around the “arab spring”... and history will judge him harshly for it.
Jeff, thanks for the clarity. Yes, Obama dismantled everything and turned and ran, frankly - again, to build his own legacy.
The fact that this description would likely apply to every @sshole inside the Beltway who orchestrated the invasion is what set me off back in 2003.
The Nation building portion was complete lunacy. Zero chance of success in Afghanistan (also another place that deserved swatting - but not rebuilding on our dime and soldiers' blood), and although I think I know what W had in mind for Iraq - it was bridge too far.
Sure, maybe he wanted to create a democratic beacon next to Iran - to spur revolution against the Iranian Mullahs - but there is no history of democratic governments ever taking successful root in that part of the world. Also, when there were gentle rumblings of revolution in Iran, it unfortunately took place on Obama's watch - so it was quickly squelched. Obama supports the Islamic fascist empire.
So yes, I support the military punishment actions taken in Iraq and Afghanistan - but not the Rules of Engagement we hamstrung our troops, nor the Nation Building 'compassionate conservatism' nonsense.
AuntB Thank you for this info I had not heard this!!! Why do we get this info from the foreign press!!!!
Now, I support Cruz in the campaign. I believe that, despite these politics, that Trump would be FAR netter for the nation than Sanders or Hillary and that he will actually do what he has promised.
But lets make no mistake. What Trump is doing is pure hard hitting, under the table politics. Iraq was not a mistake.
Rush is talking about Trump's motives for his leftist rhetoric right now. But, I disagree with Rush on this. Trump is doing what Trump does naturally. He's just being an elitist, Democrat-supporting leftie. All else is smoke, mirrors and illusion. So if you want another leftie in the WH, yeah...go ahead. Vote for Trump. But remember. I/we told ya so.
If you remember at the time occupation was a dirty word along with nation building and taking the oil. In retrospect, we should have done all three if we were going to go in there, but lots of the support was gained by specifically promising not to do those things. I remember the anti war sentiment from the left was that W was there to steal oil for his Texas oil buddies, and W had to deny it all the time. They accused W of wanting to occupy, and end up with another protracted Vietnam type war which nobody wanted. When W ran for president he said he did not believe in nation building or policing the world. They had to base it on Iraq being a threat to national security which is why they had to put so much emphasis on WMDs. I think they put a lot of pressure on intelligence to conclude there was reasonable cause to believe there were WMDs - I think they really believed it, - maybe wishful thinking, maybe they were there but got moved. I don’t know. My point is everyone says why didn’t we take the oil, occupy, nation build. It was because nobody would support that at the time.
Obama couldn't wait to get out. He didn't even try to extend the terms.
-PJ
Assuming she is the nominee, I'm willing to make wager on that, and he will do it in such a way that even thought the news will support Hillary without reservation, it will be on the front page for a week.
I don’t disagree.
“the region wasn’t ready to stand on its own”
What do you mean by “ready to stand on its own”? Tell us your perfect vision for “the region”, so we can tell if you’re delusional or not.
” If we had let him keep it, Saudi Arabia was next, and they knew it. “
Good. Saddam’s army could have saved us a lot of trouble.
“Conservatism™” = globalism wrapped in the flag.
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