Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson (vanity)

9/19/03 | carton253

[carton253]

One thing that I like about Free Republic is the breadth of knowledge on a variety of subjects that Freepers have.

After watching the movie Gods and Generals over the past few weeks, I have really grown to appreciate General Stonewall Jackson.

My knowledge of him is limited, but I know that many Freepers know and understand the Civil War.

So, while this is a slow news day (unless you are participating on the Tom vs Arnold threads), I was hoping that we could start a discussion on the contributions and meaning of Stonewall Jackson to the Southern Cause.

[carton253]

I am hoping that some Freepers will join this thread and talk not only about Stonewall, but about the Civil War.

[RebelBanker]

Jackson and Longstreet were an interesting yin and yang under Gen. Lee. Generally, Jackson was more aggressive and Longstreet was more cautious. The Army of Northern Virginia did best when these two voices were in balance. After Jackson's death, two of his division commanders (Ewell and A. P. Hill) proved to be weak corps commanders.

[carton253]

That's what I am finding out. What made Jackson so important was that he had a great understanding of the purpose of war.

I am finding that Longstreet was very cautious and would rather fight defensively than offensively.

Jeff Shaara said that there was only a Gettysburg because there was no Jackson. Jackson would have taken the high-ground at Cemetary Ridge and Little Round Top.

There would have been a battle when Lee invaded PA, but it wouldn't have been at Gettysburg.

[carton253]

I know that we've talked before about Gettysburg... I was hoping you would join me on this thread...

[RebelBanker]

Have you read "Gettysburg," Newt Gingrich's new book? He has a really interesting 'what if' scenario for that battle.

[carton253]

I'll have to get it.

I did get a biography on Jackson. (Next on my reading list) I'm finishing reading the Shaara trilogy. And I just got Foote's Volume 1 on the Civil War. watched Gettysburg a couple of weeks ago and was moved by the bravery of Pickett's charge. What men were these!

In fact, I plan to go to Gettysburg next year for the battle re-enactments.

What does Newt have to say about the "battle?"

[LS]

The problem is, my knowledge of Jackson is pretty superficial. I know far more about Sherman, Custer, Grant, and the Union guys. So I can't help you much on whether the "Gods and Generals" myth is a reality or not.

[Lazamataz]

If the South had only outsourced to Indian warriors, they never would have lost.

[carton253]

Bring what you know... I have a tendency to know more about the Northern Generals too.

I don't think Gods and Generals is a myth... I think it is historical fiction... very good historical fiction at that.

[carton253]

Please join us on this thread to talk about the Civil War.

[carton253]

I know a little more about Grant because he was born in Ohio... not far from where I live.

[LS]

Well, here's my take on Jackson: a tremendous motivator of men; probably the best instinctive general of the war, knowing exactly when, and where, to move; a good corps commander. Was he up to commanding an army? Don't know. Commanding an army requires knowing when to retreat as well as attack. Corps commanders can always blame superiors for saying that in their failed attacks they were only following orders.

In his brief life/career, Jackson to my knowledge never showed the same inventiveness that Sherman had in cutting loose his supply lines. That took phenomenal courage and faith, ironically, that one would think Jackson might have had. No matter how good he was, or how good Lee was (and I think Lee was not as good as the myths have him being), either was doomed by an "aggressive defensive" strategy that refused to trade territory for strategic advantage. Had VA been abandoned, and the western Confed. been pulled into the Mississippi line, it would have been enormously difficult for the North to have won.

[RebelBanker]

Newt's "what if" is Longstreet convincing Lee that Gettysburg is not good ground after the first day. Unless you want me to provide spoilers, I will say no more...

See my 'about' page - I am a reenactor.

There is one more good size event this season, the Battle of Cedar Creek in Middletown, Virginia (just south of Winchester) My battery will be there.

[carton253]

Had VA been abandoned, and the western Confed. been pulled into the Mississippi line, it would have been enormously difficult for the North to have won.

Do you think that happened because Jefferson Davis never had control over all the armies of the CSA?

[LS]

I won't blame ol' Jeff entirely: it was a fait d'accompli. NO REBEL LEADER could sacrifice Virginia or Texas, even for the cause of victory, because it would have been so devastating psychologically. I don't think the rest of the Confederacy psychologically would have recovered, though militarily it would have been the smart thing to do---virtually what Czar Alexander did to Napoleon in 1812.

[carton253]

I don't know that much about battles because I have a hard time, when reading, picturing the movements, etc. But, I love to listen or read about them. Battle strategy and especially the "what ifs" of Monday morning quarterbacking are fascinating to consider.

I will say this... After Fredricksburg, Lee should have known that Pickett would never make it.

[stainlessbanner]

Many thanks for the invitation for discussion, carton253.

Some previous FR articles about the Great Stonewall Jackson!

• (Robt. E)Lee and (Stonewall) Jackson--Stalwarts of the Faith
• Stonewall was one strange dude
• Stonewall Was Right

 

[stainlessbanner]

General Jackson was a man of strong conviction and undeniable faith. He liked those lemons, too!

[carton253]

I ran out at lunch and picked up Gettysburg at the library. Thanks for the tip!

[Restorer]

One entirely possible difference without Jackson that nobody has mentioned is that the North might have won at First Bull Run. That would certainly have had an enormous impact on the rest of the war, with both positive and negative effects on both sides.