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The Hobbit Hole III - Journey to the Cross-roads!

Posted on 12/17/2002 7:32:02 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!

Journey to the Cross-roads

The Two Towers Edition

Come on! Come in! -if you would like to have some seedcakes and a pint and relax a while. (If it is a special occasion, we still have a few bottles of the old wineyards left!)

Our first thread ( New Zealander builds Hobbit hole ) reached 4,100 posts, and we thought that was big. Our second thread (The New Hobbit Hole ) held us for over 48,000 posts, and we loved it dearly. We talked about moving to a new thread for the last 38,000 posts, but we are really slow to muster! Finally, the time has come. Tomorrow (at 12:01 am, to be precise!) The Two Towers comes out, and we start a new chapter.


TOPICS: The Hobbit Hole
KEYWORDS: 65536; 65537acaguy; albinoectomorphs; allelvesgotoheaven; androgynouselves; archerskickbutt; awoldwarves; axesarebetter; backgammon; barukkhazd; bashfuldwarfie; bearluckysnaig; blowitoutyershorts; boxfans; bubyesaddam; buysomeprunes; cantwaitforentmoot; catholiclist; celeborndoesdishes; chickencavedweller; chickendance; chiptheglasses; chucktaylors; cookies; cookinwithvelveeta; corinbdaysnaig; corinspamicane; cowardlyelves; cracktheplates; cutiebootie; docdwarfie; dopeydwarfie; dourelves; dwarfcanjump; dwarfcantrun; dwarfiesstayhome; dwarflax; dwarfneedsbath; dwarfruleelfdrool; dwarfsissies; dwarfsmitheesrule; dwarfthink; dwarftossingfun; dwarfwethimself; dwarvishcapitalists; elevensies; elfbash; elfenvyanonymous; elfscreamslikewoman; elfskirts; elrondstiara; elvenandrogyny; elveshugtrees; elvesrunfromdanger; elvessinginfalsetto; elvirasgreenbikini; elvishelitists; endoftheinternet; entmoot; feyelves; findmeabox; fitsnicelyinkeywords; flatfrodo; flittyelfdance; frodolives; fuzzywuzzytoes; girliedwarves; gnadthreadkiller; gollumthegreat; grumpydwarfie; hairtiredofbashing; happydwarfie; hihohihohiho; hobbit; hobbitbedhead; hobbithole; hobbitskinflicks; hotdhobbitdreams; hubbahubba; irregularelves; ishkhaqwiaidurugnul; itsthebeards; jrrstandsforwhat; khazdaimnu; khuzduluberalles; ksenspamsneeze; letsplaynice; longestthread; maltbeer; minimootsrus; missionquestthing; mushrooms; nastylittledwarfs; naturalsprinters; needsabox; nevertrustadwarf; nevertrustanelf; nicecrispybacon; nicehobbitses; peedpants; peopleofintelligence; poeticdwarves; poorelfwants2bdwarf; princeofhalflings; redmeatoffthebone; roaringfires; rudelittledwarfies; ruthyfastfunkle; saddamisanorc; secondbreakfast; selfrighteousspam; sexysnowpants; sleepydwarfie; smartassspam; smeagolsupreme; snaigedgifs; sneezydwarfie; snootyelves; snowpants; spamfreesmeagol; spamfreezone; specialsmeagol; squeezeitgirdletush; stealthdwarf; stinkysmellydwarf; stubbylegs; surfingelfdudes; suzihonestsnaig; swishswishswish; tempertantrum; testosteronefreeelf; toimplosionandbeyond; tolkienistops; tookmeister; tossme; tossmebabyyeah; trickseyhobbitses; tweeelves; twitteryhobbits; uwishuhadadwarf; waddlewaddlewaddle; wargsnax; wherearemydwarves; whistlingfrogs; zfishispolkadotted
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To: JenB
Hi Jen!

The audience at our first viewing (opening day) applauded at the end. There was no talking either, and very few people got up during the movie... most of them were probably going for bathroom breaks, although I did see one guy walking up the aisle talking on his cell phone. I hadn't heard it ring though, so he at least had enough sense to turn the ringer off before the movie started!
2,261 posted on 12/26/2002 5:47:35 PM PST by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
There was some inapropriate laughing in this film, but otherwise the crowd was good.

Is it just me, or does Gamling look a little...dazed. Especially during the scene where he's arming Theoden. It seriously looks like he's smoking something that isn't pipeweed.
2,262 posted on 12/26/2002 5:54:45 PM PST by JenB
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To: JenB
Ha!
2,263 posted on 12/26/2002 6:01:48 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: JenB
Is it just me, or does Gamling look a little...dazed.

I seem to remember thinking he looked frightened. Which struck me, because I didn't think it was quite right for that scene... he should have been rejoicing that his King was recovered enough to go to battle. But then, I didn't like the scenes of the "Weeping Women of Rohan" either. They were a proud, warrior people; this wasn't the first battle they had to send their husbands and fathers off to. I felt the attitude should have been move Viking-like: grim acceptance, rather than weeping and wailing.

2,264 posted on 12/26/2002 6:20:27 PM PST by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Bear! The women can't cry when they are sending their 13 year old sons to war? Goodness. I think even Vikings have hearts.
2,265 posted on 12/26/2002 6:28:40 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
I think the 13 year olds would have already been in the military, as squires or full blown warriors. In a medieval culture, such as one represented by Rohan, young teens were expected to do adult work. As an example, there was an English king who successfully lead his forces in battle, at the age of 14. (I think he was English, but I can't remember his name!)

And no, I don't think the women would have let the boys see their tears; the attitude should have been more like, "Do us proud! Fight well! Etc." Crying in private, out of sight from the boys, sure; but all the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth had too much of a modern feel to me. In medieval times, death was expected; and a glorious death in battle fighting to save your people would have been seen as one of the better ways to go, culturally.
2,266 posted on 12/26/2002 6:40:04 PM PST by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Well, I think that was excellent stuff!

You cannot be brave unless you are first very afraid.
2,267 posted on 12/26/2002 6:44:18 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
For me it was one of the weakest scenes in the film. I feel it was the mis-application of modern sensibilities where they didn't belong, and for me it was one of the few places where PJ failed as a director.

But that's just my opinion. ;)
2,268 posted on 12/26/2002 6:57:43 PM PST by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
*shrugs* OK. Well. I am over-dosed on negative feedback right now. I don't want to start wondering what is left to like. Sorry bear. But I liked it.



2,269 posted on 12/26/2002 7:15:41 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear; Alylonee
I think I'm in love with the elf with blonde hair
Probably Legolas... he gets a lot of that. ;)

My daughter made me the best Christmas Card. On the front it had a Christmas tree, and the message that Santa had some good news and bad news for me this year:
The bad news: He's too busy to come by my house this year....Then when you open it, it says:
The good news is he's sending one of his elves, and there was a picture of Legolas standing there with his bow, looking elvishly handsome.

2,270 posted on 12/26/2002 7:36:18 PM PST by sockmonkey
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To: HairOfTheDog
I am over-dosed on negative feedback right now. I don't want to start wondering what is left to like.

OK! Things I liked in The Two Towers:

1. Gollum - the CGI was excellent, and his "internal" arguments felt very true to the book;

2. The Battle of Helm's Deep - again, the CGI was excellent, and the ebb and flow of the battle, and the heroic sacrifices, were well done (minus the Weeping Women);

3. Character Development - it was nice to see how each character grew by the end of the film. Especially how each member of the Fellowship came to grasp how this fight was important to him; I'm thinking Pippin here. And how the friendship between Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn had grown.

4. I liked the Galadriel commentary, and Sam's Speech at the end. To me, they felt like a necessary pause for the audience to gather their wits and realize what had happened, and what it meant for the future.

There was more, I'm sure, that I will remember better after a second viewing! And my criticisms don't mean I didn't enjoy the film... but my enjoyment of the film doesn't mean I can't see flaws in it, either. ;)

2,271 posted on 12/26/2002 7:40:43 PM PST by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Thanks! - You are a sweet guy for trying to make me feel better. Feeling a little shell-shocked after dealing with those threads "out there" the last few days. Probably just a touch of modern sensibility.

I am going to sign off and read a few hours before bed. Need to get this book read. I hope I like that. ;~D
2,272 posted on 12/26/2002 7:48:22 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: sockmonkey
The good news is he's sending one of his elves

LOL! Very clever!

Legolas is my wife's favorite too... she doesn't usually go for blondes, but he's the only clean guy in the movie.

Well, that's what she said!

2,273 posted on 12/26/2002 7:53:35 PM PST by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: HairOfTheDog
Awww, stop it or you'll make me blush!! ;)

Have a good night!
2,274 posted on 12/26/2002 7:55:29 PM PST by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: RMDupree; Corin Stormhands
I use a Playstation 2 for playing DVDs and it works quite well. Of course, it is connected using S-Video on a large Mitsubishi television with the audio passing through a surround system so that might have something to do with it.

Several friends have commented on how well the picture looks, and the sound is incredible. Maybe there are different versions of the Playstation 2 units?

2,275 posted on 12/26/2002 8:08:18 PM PST by JameRetief
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To: SuziQ
Any chance that PJ heard the cries of the Tolkien fans and actually included the Scouring of the Shire in RoTK?

That would require extra shooting since the footage has all been shot already and Jackson has stated they dind't film any of the Scouring. I'm afraid the Galadriel mirror vision is the closest we will get to seeing the Scouring.

2,276 posted on 12/26/2002 8:10:42 PM PST by JameRetief
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear; HairOfTheDog; g'nad; 2Jedismom; All
In medieval times, death was expected; and a glorious death in battle fighting to save your people would have been seen as one of the better ways to go, culturally.

Maybe PJ didn't want to have comparisons with a certain "Religion of Peace?"

Hullo all! I am returned from viewing #2. The theater was packed again, but we got there early enough.

Here are my thoughts/observations.

1. Three rows from the back is WAY BETTER than three rows from the front.

2. No talky people. A couple of laughs that were too loud at the wrong times, but not too bad.

3. First time, I thought Eowyn was weak. I retract that. Liked her better this time.

4. I didn't have a problem with the weepy wimmin before the battle. Gave the uninitiated a sense of dread about what was really coming. Medieval wimmin weren't sendin' their boys off to fight against orcs riding warg-back.

5. Really enjoyed the music this time.

6. While he didn't shave, it appears Aragorn at least got a shower in Edoras. Hmmmm....he showers for Eowyn but not for Arwen? Hmmmm....;-)

7. I caught some subtle things I missed last time. When Galadriel is doing the narration, I saw the subtle shift in Elrond's expression (Metamucil kicking in?). Missed that before. And I saw Pippin calculating in his mind the reason to ask Treebeard to take them south. I think I just missed those before 'cause I was on sensory overload.

8. g'nad - you need to see it again and remember that it is an adaptation of the book. There are things about the story line that will bother us all the way through. But I think at some point we just have to let that go and enjoy.

9. This one is along the lines of the "car in the Shire" talk from last year - but not quite as much. When Arwen is crying, the closeup shows a tear first from the right eye, then the left. Then when she puts her head on Elrond, the right side of her face is dry...I guess that's a little too picky, huh? I mean, a missing tear drop isn't anything like a missing scar....No need to fetch the medicine, I'm not flapped. I just noticed it.

10. Does Saruman have a different staff in this one? I notice the change in color from white to gray (will it get even grayer?) This staff was black. Gandalf's new staff was definitely white. Hmmm....maybe I'll have to watch FOTR.

11. I thought it was really cool how Theoden's eyes cleared. It was like he had cataracts and they went away.

2,277 posted on 12/26/2002 8:27:28 PM PST by Corin Stormhands
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To: JameRetief
Maybe there are different versions of the Playstation 2 units?

More than likely it's just our TV or the connection to the PS2.

2,278 posted on 12/26/2002 8:29:22 PM PST by Corin Stormhands
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To: Corin Stormhands; All
Hmmmm....guess it's my turn to get the lights. 'Nite all.


2,279 posted on 12/26/2002 8:53:41 PM PST by Corin Stormhands
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To: HairOfTheDog
They are hotter than a Quarter Horse, and can be flighty if they do not have trust, which is vital for them. Quarter Horses will go forward to be obedient. Arabs will go forward if they believe you when you say it is safe. Ha! Lie to them once, and they will use their own judgment in the future. They notice everything, and are looking around all the time. Their survival instincts are much more in tune than in QHs.

I think it depends a lot of the particular Arab. My friends Arab stallion, Aki, has been my best equine buddy since the day we went out in a snowstorm to buy him as a weanling. He's absolutely bombproof because I think he thinks he's the Fonz, and it would be uncool to spook or be flighty. He also always has a good idea of what's going on around him, so he doesn't get surprised.

I remember at one dressage show, Marl had a ride on her old gelding, Aki's stable buddy, and then minutes later on Aki. We had to do a "flying change of tack", and I stood there with saddles over my arms, someone's halter over my shoulders, holding her old gelding with his reins in one hand, and Aki's reins, and Aki, in my teeth. He never batted an eyelash, and neither did I.

He's really the kind of horse than an elf would ride. He taught himself how to be ridden by watching Marl work other horses. He'll stand on his hill overlooking the riding ring, and watch lessons if they seem interesting. I joke that Marl should put a VCR in his stall and let him watch Grand Prix dressage, but I'm half-convinced it isn't a joke, and he'd actually watch the tapes.

Now his kid, half-Thoroughbred, isn't really flighty, but rather "high performance". He was born to do high-level dressage and eventing, and isn't suitable for general hacking. You twitch your nose, and that's a signal for a specific movement to a horse like Shekels. He depends on you to have a complete understanding of the situation, because he's listening for your cues, and tunes out the outside world. Like a high performance race car, he needs a high performance driver.

Aki, OTOH, is like the family pickup truck. He goes anywhere, does anything, and has a good time doing it. He's always tickled pink to be ridden or worked, and is always happy. Marl puts green riders on him because he's bombproof, and is still happy even when someone is sawing away at his mouth, and bouncing all over his back. I have no doubt that he'd love to learn the stunt that Brego did, and would probably knock someone to the ground just so he could show how it was done.

2,280 posted on 12/26/2002 9:21:07 PM PST by 300winmag
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