Confederate Stuart was a much-admired personality

Lot of people seem to want you dead, Walt. Maybe it's because you don't let your warm and cuddly side come out, like R. Lee Ermy does in "Mail Call" on the History Channel. Try taking lessons.

Maybe I should start all my posts to the neo-reb rantees:

"Lissen up, maggot!"

But that would be too on point.

Walt

But that would be too on point.

Perhaps. Maybe you should keep on being subtle.

That's a rhetorical fluff-filled Lincoln quote, Walt. It doesn't answer my question. Exactly what did Lincoln do to save the "future of all mankind"???

Ahhh, I've got many an issue of "G.I. Combat" still resting on the comic shelves of my boyhood bedroom. Thanks for those pix.

"Just take satisfaction in the fact that the Confederacy lost. "

Nah, they still hold out hope, after all Norfolk Naval base, Kings Bay sub pens, Camp Lejune, Cherry Point, Ft. Benning, Egland AFB,etc. are all in Southern Territory.

You're not reading the post right. Whether or not you agree that Lincoln saved the vast future of all mankind, the fact is that Lincoln's speech shows that the argument was made at the time, and that it was a rhetorical device that served to boost enlistment. Maybe it can be compared to the way arguments about states' rights and protecting your home was used as a cover to get poor southerners to fight and die to protect the economic elite's right to own slaves. (Which in turn kept those same poor whites excluded from anything like a free labor market.)

Maybe it's because you don't let your warm and cuddly side come out, like R. Lee Ermy does in "Mail Call" on the History Channel. Try taking lessons.

LOL. I did a search on 'Marines' + 'warm cuddly' and got a 404 error.

Whether or not you agree that Lincoln saved the vast future of all mankind, the fact is that Lincoln's speech shows that the argument was made at the time, and that it was a rhetorical device that served to boost enlistment.

That's all fine, but my question pertains not to what Lincoln said he was doing to save mankind, but what Lincoln actually did to save mankind. Walt asserted that he did something that saved mankind and so far he's been able to substantiate it with nothing more than a fluff-filled speech by Lincoln. That simply doesn't cut it.

A true credit to the gray uniform.
Hoorah for Dixie!!!

Alexander Stephens would disagree with you. Read the Cornerstone Speech. Or Rhett or Toombs or Cobb. Indeed, to look at 19th Century American through the eyes of the secessionist fire eaters gives the opposite conclusion to that which 21st century observers reach. To the militant secessionists, the United States were headed rapidly towards racial equality and "amalgamation." They condemned the union for that reason.

First, I don't think I've ever seen Stephens classified as a "fire-eater" until now. Your attribution of beliefs to the "fire-eaters" is also inconsistent with a good ammount of their literature and commentary. Consider the following from perhaps the greatest of the "fire-eaters" and indisputably their leader in congress. He said it was economics that led him to conclude secession's inevitability, not some concept of racial equality allegedly promoted by Lincoln.

"You suppose that numbers constitute the strength of government in this day. I tell you that it is not blood; it is the military chest; it is the almighty dollar. When you have lost your market; when your operatives are turned out; when your capitalists are broken, will you go to direct taxation? Burn down a factory that yields ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five thousand dollars a year to its owner and he goes to the wall. Dismiss the operatives, stop the motion of his machinery, and he is as thoroughly broken as if his factory were burnt; for the time he is bankrupt. These are matters for your consideration. I know that you do not regard us as in earnest. I would save this Union if I could; but it is my deliberate impression that it cannot now be done....

Your irrepressible conflict is predicated upon the supposition that this is a consolidated Government; that there are no States; that there is a national Government, as they call it; that the people who live between the two oceans and between the Gulf and the lakes are one people; that the boundaries of Massachusetts have, by some hocus pocus, been extending themselves until they embrace all the remainder of the Union; and that we are one people, have a national Government, and are under the control of "the Massachusetts school of politics," as the Senator from New York said he was. This is the fatal error." - Sen. Louis T. Wigfall, December 1860

See, N/S? All the neo-rebs can do is parrot the slave holders!

Walt

See, N/S? All the neo-rebs can do is parrot the slave holders!

"In the course of his reply, Senator Douglas remarked, in substance, that he had always considered this government was made for the white people and not for the Negroes. Why, in point of mere fact, I think so, too."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois", 16 Oct 1854, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 281.
"Now I protest against that counterfeit logic which concludes that, because I do not want a black woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. I need not have her for either, I can just leave her alone. In some respects she certainly is not my equal; but in her natural right to eat the bread she earns with her own hands without asking leave of any one else, she is my equal, and the equal of all others." [italics in original]
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois", 26 Jun 1857, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 405.
"I think the authors of that notable instrument [the Declaration] intended to include all men, but they did not intend to declare all men equal in all respects." [italics in original]
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois", 26 Jun 1857, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 405.
"But Judge Douglas is especially horrified at the thought of the mixing blood by the white and black races: agreed for once---a thousand times agreed. There are white men enough to marry all the white women, and black men enough to marry all the black women; and so let them be married. On this point we fully agree with the Judge; and when he shall show that his policy is better adapted to prevent amalgamation than ours we shall drop ours, and adopt his."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois", 26 Jun 1857, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, pp. 407-408.
"A separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation but as an immediate separation is impossible the next best thing is to keep them apart where they are not already together." [italics in original]
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois", 26 Jun 1857, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 408.
"I have said that the separation of the races is the only perfect preventive of amalgamation."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois", 26 Jun 1857, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 408.
"Such separation, if ever effected at all, must be effected by colonization; and no political party, as such, is now doing anything directly for colonization. Party operations at present only favor or retard colonization incidentally. The enterprise is a difficult one; but ``when there is a will there is a way;'' and what colonization needs most is a hearty will. Will springs from the two elements of moral sense and self-interest. Let us be brought to believe it is morally right, and, at the same time, favorable to, or, at least, not against, our interest, to transfer the African to his native clime, and we shall find a way to do it, however great the task may be."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois", 26 Jun 1857, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 409.
"My declarations upon this subject of negro slavery may be misrepresented, but can not be misunderstood. I have said that I do not understand the Declaration to mean that all men were created equal in all respects. They are not our equal in color; but I suppose that it does mean to declare that all men are equal in some respects; they are equal in their right to ``life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'' Certainly the negro is not our equal in color--- perhaps not in many other respects; still, in the right to put into his mouth the bread that his own hands have earned, he is the equal of every other man, white or black."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois", 17 Jul 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 520.
"My first impulse would be to free all the slaves, and send them to Liberia,---to their own native land. But a moment's reflection would convince me, that whatever of high hope, (as I think there is) there may be in this, in the long run, its sudden execution is impossible. If they were all landed there in a day, they would all perish in the next ten days; and there are not surplus shipping and surplus money enough in the world to carry them there in many times ten days. What then? Free them all, and keep them among us as underlings? Is it quite certain that this betters their condition? I think I would not hold one in slavery, at any rate; yet the point is not clear enough to me to denounce people upon. What next? Free them, and make them politically and socially, our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this; and if mine would, we well know that those of the great mass of white people will not."
Abraham Lincoln, "First Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Ottawa, Illinois", 21 Aug 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. III, p. 15.
"Now gentlemen, I don't want to read at any greater length, but this is the true complexion of all I have ever said in regard to the institution of slavery and the black race. This is the whole of it, and anything that argues me into his idea of perfect social and political equality with the negro, is but a specious and fantastic arrangement of words, by which a man can prove a horse chestnut to be a chestnut horse. I will say here, while upon this subject, that I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which in my judgment will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position. I have never said anything to the contrary, but I hold that notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects---certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man." [italics in original]
Abraham Lincoln, "First Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Ottawa, Illinois", 21 Aug 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. III, p. 16.
"I had no thought in the world that I was doing anything to bring about a political and social equality of the black and white races. It never occurred to me that I was doing anything or favoring anything to reduce to a dead uniformity all the local institutions of the various States. But I must say, in all fairness to him, if he thinks I am doing something which leads to these bad results, it is none the better that I did not mean it. It is just as fatal to the country, if I have any influence in producing it, whether I intend it or not."
Abraham Lincoln, "First Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Ottawa, Illinois", 21 Aug 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. III, p. 19.
"Douglas tries to make capital by charges of negro equality against me. My speeches have been printed and before the country for some time on this question, and Douglas knows the utter falsity of such a charge."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Carlinville, Illinois", 31 Aug 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. III, p. 79.
"Negroes have natural rights however, as other men have, although they cannot enjoy them here, and even Taney once said that ``the Declaration of Independence was broad enough for all men.'' But though it does not declare that all men are equal in their attainments or social position, yet no sane man will attempt to deny that the African upon his own soil has all the natural rights that instrument vouchsafes to all mankind."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Carlinville, Illinois", 31 Aug 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. III, p. 79.
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
Abraham Lincoln, "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois", 18 Sep 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. III, pp. 145-146.
"Judge Douglas has said to you that he has not been able to get from me an answer to the question whether I am in favor of negro-citizenship. So far as I know, the Judge never asked me the question before. He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I am not in favor of negro citizenship."
Abraham Lincoln, "Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois", 18 Sep 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. III, p. 179.
"I have all the while maintained, that in so far as it should be insisted that there was an equality between the white and black races that should produce a perfect social and political equality, it was an impossibility. This you have seen in my printed speeches, and with it I have said, that in their right to ``life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,'' as proclaimed in that old Declaration, the inferior races are our equals."
Abraham Lincoln, "Fifth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas, at Galesburg, Illinois", 7 Oct 1858, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. III, pp. 221-222.
"Mr. Lincoln is not pledged to the ultimate extinctinction [sic ] of slavery; does not hold the black man to be the equal of the white, unqualifiedly as Mr. S. states it; and never did stigmatize their white people as immoral & unchristian; and Mr. S. can not prove one of his assertions true."
Abraham Lincoln, "To Henry J. Raymond", 18 Dec 1860, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. IV, p. 156.
"In such case I recommend that Congress provide for accepting such persons from such States, according to some mode of valuation, in lieu, pro tanto, of direct taxes, or upon some other plan to be agreed on with such States respectively; that such persons, on such acceptance by the general government, be at once deemed free; and that, in any event, steps be taken for colonizing both classes, (or the one first mentioned, if the other shall not be brought into existence,) at some place, or places, in a climate congenial to them. It might be well to consider, too,---whether the free colored people already in the United States could not, so far as individuals may desire, be included in such colonization." [italics in original]
Abraham Lincoln, "Annual Message to Congress", 3 Dec 1861, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. V, p. 48.
"I do not speak of emancipation at once, but of a decision at once to emancipate gradually. Room in South America for colonization, can be obtained cheaply, and in abundance; and when numbers shall be large enough to be company and encouragement for one another, the freed people will not be so reluctant to go ." [italics in original]
Abraham Lincoln, "Appeal to Border State Representatives to Favor Compensated Emancipation ", 12 Jul 1862, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. V, p. 318.
"You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other two races. Whether it is right or wrong I need not discuss, but this physical difference is a great disadvantage to us both, as I think your race suffer very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffer from your presence. If this is admitted, it affords a reason, at least, why we should be separated."
Abraham Lincoln, "Address on Colonization to a Deputation of Negroes", 14 Aug 1862, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol V, p. 371.
"But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. You are cut off from many of the advantages which the other race enjoy. The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent, not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of ours. Go where you are treated the best, and the ban is still upon you."
Abraham Lincoln, "Address on Colonization to a Deputation of Negroes", 14 Aug 1862, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol V, p. 372.
"I cannot make it better known than it already is, that I strongly favor colonization."
Abraham Lincoln, "Annual Message to Congress", 1 Dec 1862, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol V, p. 534.
"Negro equality! Fudge!! How long, in the government of a God, great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue knaves to vend, and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagoguism as this?"
Abraham Lincoln, "Fragments: Notes for Speeches ", 1859 (annotation: The third fragment might well have been jotted down at any time between December, 1858, and March, 1860), Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol III, p. 399.

Lincoln, white separatist.

There's a lot of things I'd do for the South but I don't know

Way to take one for the team, Bill.

So how did Jefferson Davis feel on the subject? Just curious.

Still no substance to your rantings, eh walt?

Stuart was bold....Perhaps he thought he was larger than life, but alas, no

The reason Stuart was bold is that he had an unshakeable faith in a sovereign, omnipotent Lord. He knew that nothing happens outside God's perfect will and that even bullets follow the path of the Lord. He went calmly into battle and he went calmly into death.

If the biographer ommitted Stuart's faith, it is a writing which reports only part of the man, an incomplete and suspect picture. I have no doubt that I will meet him worshipping the Lamb along with the other believers in the resurrection.

Stuart, Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, Johnston, Hood, Davis...losers, all, and nothing but losers.

They were fighters, boy. REMF pogues like you who never fired a shot at an enemy or heard the close passage of a round don't have the standing to call warriors losers.

What a geeky looking little pogue. He had to carry a sign to keep people from thinking he was McKinney, huh? The funny thing is that his politics are exactly like Jane Fonda's and he would be voting for Cynthia McKinney if she could have kept her ties to muslims secret.

He'll vote for Hillary for president when she runs, you watch.

"Lissen up, maggot!"

Robert Lee Ermey is a Southerner and a real Marine warrior. You can't emulate him .

If the biographer ommitted Stuart's faith, it is a writing which reports only part of the man, an incomplete and suspect picture. I have no doubt that I will meet him worshipping the Lamb along with the other believers in the resurrection.

An excellent point. No doubt Lee, Davis and old Blue Light will also be there. Absent will be the atheist Lincoln and the scoffer's servants Sherman and Grant. The most fervent worshippers of the war criminals who fought a revolution to set aside our Constitution have always been atheist communists, socialists and the like. That hasn't changed since 1865. We see it proven here every time a thread is posted mentioning that war.