Posted on 07/28/2026 6:12:32 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
The forensic evidence was bloody and grim. Thick clotted blood scored the bruised face of the corpse, from a multitude of deep, needle-sharp wounds.
More dried blood could be seen on the arms, feet and ankles, blood that had oozed from brutal injuries that punched through the bones.
These details, pieced together by successive teams of experts in criminal pathology, are captured in the oldest piece of murder evidence in the world: the Shroud of Turin.
The dead man, powerfully built and naked, must have suffered intense agonies... but he did not bleed to death.
Neither was he killed by the deep stab wound in his left side, close to his heart.
There were other wounds too, savage but not fatal – signs of a beating that began at his shoulders and left welts across his back and thighs.
All of these injuries contributed to his death, but the murder weapon was more gruesome still... gravity itself.
The victim was killed by his own body weight. His name, of course, was Jesus of Nazareth.
In his new book, The Shroud Rises, Australian researcher William West reaches a provocative conclusion: that the Shroud of Turin (pictured) does, beyond question, depict the face and body of Jesus Christ.
West (pictured) believes there to be ten irrefutable proofs that the Shroud is not a fake.
His death, by crucifixion at a public execution in Jerusalem around 33AD, must have been slow and unspeakably painful.
Slumped forward and suspended by his arms, he suffocated on the blood and pleural fluid that accumulated around his lungs.
After his body was taken down from the cross, it was wrapped in a linen cloth.
His blood, still wet, stained the cloth and then, so the faithful believe, the likeness of Christ's corpse was miraculously transferred onto the linen.
The earliest definite historical records show a cloth claiming to...
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.com ...
Since Jesus did not have long hair, that shroud is not from Jesus.
From various articles and interviews I watched over years, I learned a few things:
* science has shown the images on the shroud are not paint nor anything we can replicate. described as if every cell of the body fired some unimaginable huge amount of energy all at once.
* images of a person, seeds/plants, coins over eyes (burial custom)
* coins date back to time frame near Jesus’s death, and plants are of the area.
skeptics can think what they want, but something supernatural, that we cannot duplicate nor fully understand, created the images on the shroud.
"In the 1980s, a study was carried out that stated the shroud only dated back to the Middle Ages, rubbishing claims that it was real.
But new tests have been undertaken recently to allow the item to be dated accurately for the first time.
Italian researchers employing a new X-ray-based technique have determined that the cloth was first manufactured around the time during which Jesus is said to have lived.
It was reported how researchers at Italy's Institute of Crystallography, of the National Research Council employed a technique named Wide-Angle X-ray scattering, and found the shroud is likely close to 2,000 years old. The study, published in the journal Heritage, concluded: "The data profiles were fully compatible with analogous measurements obtained on a linen sample whose dating, according to historical records, is 55-74 AD, found at Masada, Israel."
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/science/turin-shroud-real-jesus-christ-scientists-new-claims-b1178544.html
The basic question is why are relics so important to some?
Relics were obviously used in church history for nefarious purposes. That can’t be denied.
When does a relic become an idol or graven image? It is a slippery slope.
The Holy Spirit points to Jesus. Jesus points to the Father. What is the relic pointing to?
If you need proof that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, then your faith is weak.
Certain articles, like this one, no.
If you need proof that Jesus died, was buried, and rose again, then your faith is weak.
So how does God use us to make it stronger? It is not about the relic, as much of the discussion here is about. Pay close attention to the postings and the points being made.
Piles of stone were made to remember. Some worshiped the pile of stones, others just saw a pile of stones, a few remembered.
As they should have been.
Wow. You’re so right. I knkw photo I’ve seen of Jesus shows him with a crew cut.
A previous thread, maybe 10 years ago, quoted a Jewish American professor. He accomplished a thorough examination of the shroud including weave and pollen.
Back then, I wrote a neighbor saying, “As a scientist myself—and having never commented on its veracity—have become now convinced of the authenticity of the shroud.”
The study was intense and the Jewish author was prompted by a California colleague.
And that is a really good question. Another really good question is why does the fact that someone believes the Shroud *might* have been the burial cloth mean someone is regarding it as a relic in the way you suggest? It is actually possible to look at the evidecne and think the evidence supports it’s authenticity *and* not revere it as a relic.
Or is the bible lying about Jesus being wrapped in linen, and is it impossible the cloth was kept and we have it?
Bit if there is evidence, doesn’t Paul demand we act as the Bereans? One way to strengthen faith that was very meaningful to me was to study the scriptural evidence that the bible itself, old and new testament, has been faithfully preserved through the millennia. You’re saying my faith is weak because I somehow “needed” something more than just “blind” faith? Yeah - don’t think so.
One way to strengthen faith that was very meaningful to me was to study the scriptural evidence that the bible itself, old and new testament
No, not exactly. And it’s not a test for proof. Those second and third century papyrus fragments could easily be something to regard as more than evidence. They could serve the same function as relics if one wasn’t careful. Same for the second century BC scroll fragments from Qumran. And part of the study is textual variants and why they both exist *and* that there is no significant textual variant that changes any core doctrine of faith, which even Bart Ehrman acknowledges. That’s not studying the bible. That’s studying evidence for the consistency between what we have and what the original authors wrote.
The two two subjects are certainly related. I don’t deny that.
We also, separately, discuss evidences of the resurrection. Those are both in biblical and non-biblical sources. The Shroud falls into the second category. But that doesn’t make it any less valid as an evidence to discuss.
I should add i see that I used the words “scriptural evidence” and that’s probably not the best usage - it should probably read “textual evidence” because a part of any extensive study involves examining evidences for why false gospels amd the like are rejected, both on the doctrinal errors they contain but *also* the textual evidence of fraud.
Yeah I think so.
You’re probably a KJV-only guy, too, aren’t you?
NRSV but I don’t worship relics, nor pay indulgences. We in the RC gave up that crap.
“Your “biblical account” is made up by *you*. Still waiting fkr book, chapter, and verses wjth the masses of material you claimed.”
You illiterate idiots, cite what I said about “masses of material.”
After a period of time, all that wrapping became a cocoon and hardened. That is why the scripture says Peter looked in the tomb and believed. The cocoon was still intact but Jesus was gone.
John 19:39 - 40 —
39 And Nicodemus, who at first came to Jesus by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds. 40 Then they took the body of Jesus, and bound it in strips of linen with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury.
If there’s actual human blood, it contains dna…
If it is cloned, the offspring will be smothered with false worshippers and idolatry.
Far more than the shroud, assorted bones, statues of Mary, golden calf, etc.
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