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America as a New Athens (the Bad Kind)
American Thinker ^ | 1 May, 2025 | Jeffrey Folks

Posted on 05/01/2025 4:11:21 AM PDT by MtnClimber

The parallels between the state of our country and the spectacular fall of Athens are too disturbing to ignore.

The Athenian democracy fell to Sparta in 404 B.C. That disaster was not inevitable; it was the result of a series of poor decisions, themselves the result of greed and self-interest on the part of various factions.

Had the Athenians not followed the advice of a charismatic but rash leader, Alcibiades (whom they then exiled, driving him to the other side, where he served as an adviser before returning to Athens to unleash further mischief), they might not have sent their fleet to Syracuse, where it was destroyed. Nor would they have built the wall that “protected” the city — for a short while — but also walled themselves off from their lucrative silver mines and agricultural fields. Had they not walled themselves into crowded conditions, the plague that ravaged Athens in the last years of the Peloponnesian War might have been less severe. If they had not alienated their allies with their arrogance and burdensome taxation, they might not have driven some of them into the Spartan camp, hastening their own isolation and defeat.

In the end, nothing could save the Athenian democracy from itself. There was too much of the arrogance of a great power; too much willingness to follow the lead of impetuous leaders; too much risk, including military actions far from home; too much economic and class division; and there was not the wise conservatism that makes provision for unforeseen events, such as the decimating plague that struck Athens in 430 B.C., continuing until 426, reducing available manpower and upsetting the social order.

History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes. Under Obama and Biden, America’s military power has been undermined as funds were unwisely shifted to “social justice”

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: alcibiades; athens; baloney; jeffreyfolks; peloponnesianwar; phonyparallel; powelldoctrine; putinistas; sparta; syracuse
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1 posted on 05/01/2025 4:11:21 AM PDT by MtnClimber
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To: MtnClimber

I hope it is not too late to undo the damage.


2 posted on 05/01/2025 4:11:59 AM PDT by MtnClimber (For photos of scenery, wildlife and climbing, click on my screen name for my FR home page.)
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To: MtnClimber

Bookmark. And thanks for posting this.


3 posted on 05/01/2025 4:16:14 AM PDT by EliRoom8 ( -- )
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To: MtnClimber

I fear that it is too late.

However, we’re going to do the best we can. Thank Almighty God in Heaven that we did not get that Drunken Harlot Democrat Kamala Harris.

That Godless Reprobate would have been the immediate end of the Republic.

To stop acting like the city of Babylon the Harlot would be a good beginning.

But this seems true of much of the world 🌎🌏🌍 these days.

And so shall Revelation chapters 17 and 18 be fulfilled.


4 posted on 05/01/2025 4:25:22 AM PDT by SaveFerris (Luke 17:28 ... as it was in the Days of Lot; They did Eat, They Drank, They Bought, They Sold ......)
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To: MtnClimber

Astounding post. Should be heeded.


5 posted on 05/01/2025 4:25:41 AM PDT by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: MtnClimber
(Under Obama and Biden, America’s military power has been undermined as funds were unwisely shifted to “social justice”)

Their plan was to destroy Traditional America.

They did MUCH damage.


6 posted on 05/01/2025 4:29:29 AM PDT by SaveFerris (Luke 17:28 ... as it was in the Days of Lot; They did Eat, They Drank, They Bought, They Sold ......)
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7 posted on 05/01/2025 4:46:05 AM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("...mit Pulver und Blei, Die Gedanken sind frei!")
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To: MtnClimber
Had the Athenians not followed the advice of a charismatic but rash leader, Alcibiades (whom they then exiled, driving him to the other side, where he served as an adviser before returning to Athens to unleash further mischief), they might not have sent their fleet to Syracuse, where it was destroyed.as i recall Alcibiades was convicted by his enemies while he was at sea (lawfare!) and banished so he switched sides and gave away the plans to the Syracusans. Perhaps the problem wasn’t the bad advice of Alcibiades, maybe maybe there were some problems with weaponizatuon of the courts to banish a general commanding your fleet during a war.
8 posted on 05/01/2025 5:13:56 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie ("We want no Gestapo or Secret Police. F. B. I. is tending in that direction." - Harry S Truman)
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To: MtnClimber

It is too late. Look at the pervasiveness of Democrat/liberal behavior.


9 posted on 05/01/2025 5:24:44 AM PDT by GingisK
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To: MtnClimber

Like America now, the Athenian democracy failed when the riff raff gained control of the government and the patriarchs money

BLM destroys entire cities


10 posted on 05/01/2025 5:32:18 AM PDT by bert ( (KE. NP. +12) Where is ZORRO when California so desperately needs him?)
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To: Who is John Galt?
A solid chunk of our defense budget is basically stolen by a procurement process that sees the procurement process itself as the goal and not delivery of any working & affordable weapons systems. As long as politically connected contractors are paid off, it's a "success."

If all the paperwork gets pushed & all the contractors get paid, they think they've done their jobs. Same with much of NASA's programs like SLS (Senate Launch System).

11 posted on 05/01/2025 5:48:05 AM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: SaveFerris

The decline began in ernest during the 60’s with Leftists Charles Mandate n, Sal Alinsky, Bill Ayers and Henry Marcuse
“ Marcuse argued that to become a truly liberated society and to realize the objective of tolerance we must be “intolerant toward prevailing policies, attitudes, [and] opinions” but tolerant to dissident, subversive, and revolutionary policies, attitudes, and opinions. This exactly describes the conditions on campuses today and what is described as “cancel culture” in society at large.”
Some people just want to watch the world burn.


12 posted on 05/01/2025 6:03:28 AM PDT by griswold3 (Truth Beauty and Goodnes.)
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To: Who is John Galt?; All

Without “normalizing” the budgets for differences in value of local currencies, the graphic is just propaganda.

China’s military budget may be particularly misleading.

Here is a side by side comparison of China vs USA military strengths:

https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=china&country2=united-states-of-america

It places China and the USA as having essentially the same military power.


13 posted on 05/01/2025 6:25:09 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: pierrem15; All

A solid chunk of our defense budget is basically stolen by a procurement process that sees the procurement process itself as the goal and not delivery of any working & affordable weapons systems. As long as politically connected contractors are paid off, it’s a “success.”


Fortunately, our major adversaries, such as China and Russia are even more corrupt in their defense acquisition systems.


14 posted on 05/01/2025 6:27:15 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: MtnClimber

The parallels between the state of our country and
The Covenant Church could be disturbing to many, too.

But the good news is the nation that has the parallels with the New Covenant Church can simply transform back to a proper nation with a little law, order and Justice.

The lawlessness, disorder and just us is not the biblical way for a nation that began with 13 Colonies, like Christ began with His 12. And grew to 50 states like the New Covenant Church grew at 50..

It’s far scarier than Athens on one level.
It’s far more hopeful than Athens on another level.

We are a peculiar nation.
We are a prophetic nation.

We are also a serpent led nation that can transform back into a proper staff with a grab and hold of the serpent’s tail..


15 posted on 05/01/2025 6:46:23 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: marktwain
Without “normalizing” the budgets for differences in value of local currencies, the graphic is just propaganda...

It's possible to debate any of the categories listed at your link, in terms of quality, reliability, effectiveness, etc., and frankly, some categories are largely irrelevant (unless the US invades the Chinese mainland). And please note, the source at your link compares Chinese and US military expenditures as well ($267B vs $895B, with or without "normalizing"). As others here have implied, there is likely a great deal of inefficiency and waste in the US military budget, which should be addressed in an effort to reduce the skyrocketing national debt. To suggest that we largely ignore the military budget as a source of our crippling debt [as does the author of the American Thinker article - "Across-the-board cuts of 10 percent in government spending (except for military), combined with DOGE cuts..."] is unrealistic; blindly increasing US military expenditures year after year has been one of the factors contributing to wasteful federal spending and our unsustainable debt and interest burdens.

16 posted on 05/01/2025 7:06:59 AM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("...mit Pulver und Blei, Die Gedanken sind frei!")
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To: Who is John Galt?

blindly increasing US military expenditures year after year has been one of the factors contributing to wasteful federal spending and our unsustainable debt and interest burdens.


“Blindly increasing” is certainly a problem in all areas of the budget. It appears to me the Trump program includes getting more bang for the buck than previous administrations have.

Being careful stewards of the public moneys is a necessary thing. However, actual defense of the nation is one of the very few actual purposes of the Federal government.

In my opinion, the Obama and Biden presidencies had, as one of their purposes, the reduction of the effectiveness of the American military. This has been a goal of the radical Left for about 60 years, certainly since Vietnam, probably since the start of the Cold war.


17 posted on 05/01/2025 7:41:12 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: griswold3

👍👍


18 posted on 05/01/2025 8:23:17 AM PDT by SaveFerris (Luke 17:28 ... as it was in the Days of Lot; They did Eat, They Drank, They Bought, They Sold ......)
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To: bert

👍👍


19 posted on 05/01/2025 8:24:45 AM PDT by SaveFerris (Luke 17:28 ... as it was in the Days of Lot; They did Eat, They Drank, They Bought, They Sold ......)
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To: bert

Bump for later comment


20 posted on 05/01/2025 11:32:07 AM PDT by KC Burke
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