Posted on 11/07/2024 4:42:52 AM PST by marcusmaximus
Russian Security Council Secretary Sergei Shoigu said on Thursday, a day after Donald Trump became U.S. president-elect, that the West should accept Russia was winning the Ukraine war and negotiate an end to it.
-snip-
The Wall Street Journal reported that Trump’s transition team had proposed that Kyiv could promise not to join NATO for 20 years in exchange for Washington agreeing to arm it heavily to deter a Russian attack. Russia says it will not comment on media reports, and that it would need to see the details of any plan before commenting.
The Kremlin reacted cautiously on Wednesday after Trump won the presidential election, saying the U.S. was still an unfriendly state and that only time would tell if his rhetoric on ending the war translated into reality. Reuters reported in May that Putin was ready to halt the war with a negotiated ceasefire recognising current battlefield lines, but was prepared to fight on if Kyiv and the West did not respond.
(Excerpt) Read more at swissinfo.ch ...
Suddenly, all of the always-wrong Ukie shills are "selling it forward".
No sale, Petey Boy.
You pass more gas than the former Nordstrom's pipelines.
Suit up if you want to try to reverse reality.
The grifting munchkin needs moar cannon fodder to replace the veteran AFU troops in the Kursk surround.
De facto.
Which specific claim that I made about Russia’s violation of the Minsk accords was false? As for the Istanbul negotiations, please stop repeating the lie that there was, or would have been, a deal. There was no deal because the Russian demands were too great, not because of Boris Johnson.
It was always a ruse to allow a NATO military buildup in Ukraine and to launch an offensive in Donetsk and Lugansk.
Angela Merkle and François Hollande have both admitted it.
You're lying as usual.
Zeepers are besides themselves with the pospect that Trump will dump Zelinski for his personal involvement in the Rissia Hoax, two impeachments, and spewing DNC Campaign propoganda in NYC about joining NATO or getting nukes.
Ukraine picked the wrong Americans to sleep with in Joe, the Ho, and DNC.
It was always a ruse to allow a NATO military buildup in Ukraine and to launch an offensive in Donetsk and Lugansk.
Even if true, of which you have no proof, Ukraine had every right to try to recover Donetsk and Luhansk. It is the Russians who had no right to be there. There would have been no need for the accords in the first place if Russia had not first violated its agreements with Ukrainian and invaded. Additionally, you keep failing to acknowledge that Russia itself violated the accords.
Angela Merkle and François Hollande have both admitted it.
No, they just stated that giving Ukraine the time to rearm was the result, not the intention, of the accords. The later is just Russian projection.
As has been pointed out before:
It doesn’t matter what the resolution is in Ukraine. Russia may install a total puppet govt, place borders around the country annexing all the oblasts that voted to join Russia, have all the US and UK intelligence agents in Kiev killed — and then after all this is imposed, withdraw their troops — or rather just stop destroying the Ukraine power stations.
The puppet govt would announce that Russia has reduced its troop count in the Donbas and Kherson (since no longer needed) and the western media will explode with announcements of victory.
Point being so many govts of Europe are so heavily invested in things that regardless of what actually happens, victory will be declared. And the relevant FR faction will agree with them and say they were right all along.
In an interview with the German newspaper Die Zeit last week, former German chancellor Angela Merkel revealed the West's real intention behind its negotiation with Russia and Ukraine to promote a ceasefire in 2014. She admitted the Minsk agreements were an "attempt to give Ukraine time" and that Kiev had used it "to become stronger."
And what was Russia doing in Donbas in the first place? Ukraine had every right to try and gain it back. And what was Russia’s motivation? It clearly did not live up to the agreement. Don’t pretend that Russia was acting honestly.
It was the people of Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea that were the victims of the illegal coup in 2014.
Scum like you has no regard for their rights.
And, after the illegal coup, the Ukrainian government went out of its way to persecute and kill the people in Donetsk and Lugansk.
You're ridiculous.
Please spare me your rationalizations. Yanukovych fled the country and his successors were chosen by free elections (more than can be said about Putin). Donbas was then military seized by Russia. The 2014 referenda were held under duress under military occupation. There was no free campaign. Even so, the referenda only called for autonomy, not independence nor union with Russia. Nor was there the persecution of and attacks on the ethnic Russians that you allege. This is pure Russian propaganda. Why are you still repeating such lies? It gets wearisome.
I doubt that Trump will be letting Putin tell him what to do any more than he will Zelensky.
When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 along with the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact, the West had an opportunity to include Russia into the European orbit, Instead, we chose to treat Russia as just another incarnation of the Soviet Union.
US Secretary of State James Baker, 1990: “We understand the need for assurances to the countries in the East. If we maintain a presence in a Germany that is a part of NATO, there would be no extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east.”
Current CIA Director William Burns, Former US Ambassador to Russia, 2008: “NATO enlargement, particularly to Ukraine, remains “an emotional and neuralgic” issue for Russia.”
Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Press Briefing, 2008: “A radical new expansion of NATO may bring about a serious political-military shift that will inevitably affect the security interests of Russia.”
UN General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg, 2023: “[Putin] wanted us to sign a promise never to enlarge NATO...we rejected that. So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.”
Vladimir Putin, 2024: “The promise was that NATO would not expand eastward. But it happened five times. There were five waves of expansion. We tolerated all that. We were trying to persuade them. We were saying, Please don’t.”
It’s almost as if ALL sides acknowledged that the US made assurances not to expand NATO, and realized doing so was a red line for Russia, but did so anyway. And despite all of this, the corporate press and political establishment continues to call this a “conspiracy theory!”
“...based on current reality”
Current reality is that 2-1/2 years after it invaded, Russia’s gaslight-near-peer military still hasn’t been able to steamroll a smaller neighbor.
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