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Zelensky 'tells NATO - let us join, or we'll get NUKES': Ukrainian leader 'issues shock ultimatum - and says his proposal was backed by TRUMP'
Daily Mail ^ | 10/17/2024 | Taryn Pedler

Posted on 10/17/2024 9:08:41 AM PDT by marcusmaximus

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has reportedly told NATO to let his country join the group or it will get nuclear weapons in a shock ultimatum that was allegedly backed by Donald Trump.

The leader, 46, declared his bombshell proposal at the EU summit in Brussels - stating either NATO quickly accepts Ukraine into its alliance, or it will once again become a nuclear power, reports Bild.

Zelensky had reportedly planned to present what is being dubbed his 'victory plan' to the heads of state and government of the European Union, but instead made the dramatic announcement to stunned reporters on Thursday afternoon.

Speaking to the former American President Donald Trump, 78, some weeks ago, the Ukrainian leader declared: 'Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons, and then they will be our defense.

'Or we will have to enter into some kind of alliance. Apart from NATO, we do not know of any effective alliances today.'

He said Trump had agreed with his proposal before he made the statement at the summit, insisting that a membership to NATO would provide his country with the ultimate security guarantee to protect it from Russia.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: beggarofkiev; blevat; escalation; extortion; flatusmaximus; isthatathreat; liar; marcusmaxitroll; mucusmaximus; nato; nuclearthreat; onelinertrolling; russia; spamspamspam; spamusmaximus; surejan; tarynpedler; tothelastukrainian; unwisethreat; whataload; zestinky
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To: marcusmaximus

Sorry, I get you and epluribusunim confused. Or perhaps you are one and the same?


61 posted on 10/17/2024 2:21:44 PM PDT by Bookshelf
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To: marcusmaximus

BS. Pure BS.


62 posted on 10/17/2024 2:41:02 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: CatHerd

You sure it is in that video?


63 posted on 10/17/2024 3:12:17 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: DesertRhino; marktwain

“”””Some Soviet nukes, controlled by Moscow physically existed there when the USSR ended. But they were never owned, commanded or operated by Ukraine. They were removed rather than allowing them to get handed over to Kiev. Today is probably why.
The Ukrainian military never had a commander of nuclear forces. Kiev had zero operational control because they did not own them. And that security guarantee was for non-aligned military status.””””

This guy at Reddit writes this, so it may be a little different than what you posted.
“Generally speaking, Belarus and Kazakhstan were more or less fine with de facto Russian control of nuclear weapons on their territory. Ukraine, less so. From late 1992, Ukraine had custodial control of nuclear warheads on its territory, and set up its own embryonic command and control system, as well as protocols to order military staff on its territory to not comply with launch orders that the Ukrainian President did not countersign. Ukrainian control went so far that in 1993 the Ukrainian military removed and transported warheads from missiles, inching closer to setting up its own active control of nuclear weapons. This confusing situation was only ultimately resolved by the December 5, 1994 Budapest Memorandum, under which Belarus, Ukraine and Kazakhstan agreed to the transfer of all nuclear warheads to Russian territory, which was completed by 1996.”

“The nuclear arsenal that was on Ukrainian territory consisted of the following: 130 SS-19 and 46 SS-24 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) with 1,240 warheads, and 44 Tupolev-95 and Tupolev-160 strategic bombers (with 1,081 nuclear cruise missiles). There apparently were still tactical nuclear warheads on Ukrainian territory as well - the USSR basically kept tactical nukes in local armories, and started relocating them to Russia proper in the last months of 1991. The last ones were out of Ukraine in early 1992. So the negotiations were always specifically around the strategic weapons and delivery systems.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/t06ckf/in_the_early_90s_ukraine_had_the_thirdlargest/?rdt=64487


64 posted on 10/17/2024 3:27:11 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: ansel12

Here’s a “short” outtake from that 2019 press conference where Trump tells Zelensky to get together with Putin:

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/p-A4zNHrEWY

Zelensky does not look very happy about it, as you can see.


65 posted on 10/17/2024 6:15:12 PM PDT by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: CatHerd

I don’t see why you think the American president saying something normal has a special meaning, of course back then he hoped that they could talk, at the time the president had American troops in Ukraine training its troops and he was sending them the weapons they would need if Putin invaded, and they are the weapons that saved Ukraine when the invasion did happen.


66 posted on 10/17/2024 6:24:40 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: ansel12

The point is that Trump told Zelensky to work out peace with Putin. Although he did not say “Minsk 2” that is obviously what he meant. This was Zelensky’s “I just got elected” visit to Washington. He ran on a peace ticket, promising to implement Minsk and received over 70% of the vote, as the Ukrainian people overwhelmingly wanted peace.

Too bad, so sad, when Zelensky went to the front to order AZOV to honor the pullback and ceasefire, they mocked him and laughed at him. See:

https://x.com/Liveuamap/status/1188041134943154177

I have always wondered whether this was political theater or whether Kolomoisky (oligarch who wholly owned Zelensky and mostly owned AZOV) was playing “who’s your Daddy?” with a naive Zelensky. After the passage of time, I am decidedly leaning toward the former.

Eventually, Kolomoisky became an embarrassment to the American handlers and Zelensky stabbed him in the back, so ... the latter *might* be true. But not necessarily.

The initial Russian invasion force was tiny and not serious. Putin obviously expected Zelensky to go for a peace plan. He very nearly did, but then that haystack Boris Johnson showed up and put the nix on the deal.


67 posted on 10/17/2024 7:19:24 PM PDT by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: CatHerd

Here is what he said.

“we’re working with Ukraine and we want other
countries to work with Ukraine when I
say work I’m referring to money they
should put up more money we put up a lot
of money I gave you anti-tank Buster’s
that frankly President Obama was sending
you pillows and sheets and I gave you
anti-tank Buster’s and a lot of people
didn’t want to do that but I did it
and
I really hope that Russia because I
really believe that President Putin
would like to do something I really hope
that you and President Putin get
together and can solve your problem that
would be a tremendous achievement and I
know you’re trying to do that”


68 posted on 10/17/2024 7:25:50 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: CatHerd

The initial Russian invasion WAS the invasion, with all of Ukraine being the goal, Putin misjudged and is now caught in a draining hell that he did not think possible.

This is more of the transcript from the meeting you keep referring to.

President Trump—”if you remember you lost Crimea during a
different administration not during the
trump administration that was during the Obama administration
that you lost Crimea and I didn’t think
it was something that you should have
but that was done a long time ago and I
think was handled poorly but it’s just
one of those things.

one of the elements that we discussed is the United States
helps Ukraine but I think that other
countries should help Ukraine much more
than they’re doing Germany France the
European Union nations they really
should help you a lot more and I think
maybe together we’ll work on that they
have to feel a little bit guilty about
it because they don’t do what they
should be doing

you’re very important to
the European Union you’re very important
strategically, very important that I
think they should spend a lot more in
helping Ukraine and they know that also
and they actually tell me that but they
don’t seem to produce so I’m sure you’ll
talk to them and I’ll certainly be
talking to them”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLAdt7K9LpQ


69 posted on 10/17/2024 7:52:53 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: ansel12

Did you notice the context? The press was beating him up at the time over the “Russia Russia Russia” hoax. Of course he was carrying on about sending more stuff to Ukraine than Obama did. He ended with his key point: go talk to Putin and make peace.

Note the press conference with Trump was in late September of 2019. His ill-fated trip to the front line where he was mocked by AZOV was on October 19 of that same year. Hmm.

Poor Ukraine. Between their crooked oligarchs (and their Banderite enforcers) and our neocons, the people never got their deepest desire: implementing Minsk and having peace.


70 posted on 10/17/2024 8:06:37 PM PDT by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: ansel12

“The initial Russian invasion WAS the invasion, with all of Ukraine being the goal, Putin misjudged and is now caught in a draining hell that he did not think possible.”

The initial invasion force was tiny. According to basic military doctrine, far, far too small for a successful invasion and occupation. Putin and his generals knew this very well. It was not meant to take over all of Ukraine, despite the silly claims of Blinken & Friends. It was meant to rattle Zelensky into implementing a peace deal. And it very nearly worked.

Putin still doesn’t want all of Ukraine. What a headache that would be for him. He just wants that eastern part. He’s hardly Mr. Nice Guy, but he’s not stupid.

But if want want to believe all the nonsense Biden and Blinken and Nuland and the British tabloids have been spewing, go ahead. People often believe what they want to believe no matter what.


71 posted on 10/17/2024 8:21:48 PM PDT by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: CatHerd

I noticed that it fit the continuous actions he took against Putin militarily during his entire administration, I don’t know what you keep imagining that you are seeing when you watch that meeting.

Trump’s strong military and NATO actions he took against Putin were greatly encouraging after Obama’s weakness towards Putin.


72 posted on 10/17/2024 8:22:34 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: CatHerd

The invasion force was what Putin thought he needed to take the capitol and Ukraine, years later, you are rewriting the history when the reality is that most everyone assumed Ukraine was going to disappear from the list of nations, and quickly.

Now we are approaching year three and even Odessa is still free.


73 posted on 10/17/2024 8:28:48 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: ansel12

I don’t know what you are imagining. Did you notice the look on Zelensky’s face?

Again, you will believe what you want to believe. If Trump is elected (something Zelensky mightily fears), we’ll find out how he solves this. My prediction is a peace deal nothing like Zelensky’s fantasy. Ukraine will not go back to its 1991 borders, sorry. Those eastern oblasts are gone.

I do so hope Trump wins! For many, many reasons, not just this this ghastly war in Ukraine.


74 posted on 10/17/2024 8:35:37 PM PDT by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: CatHerd

Russia is the main focus and it was the focus of so much of Trump’s actions in regard to his military buildup.


75 posted on 10/17/2024 8:40:08 PM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

I’d be okay with Trump offering to support that position IF Z provided names, amounts, dates, AND proof, for every American AND NATO member who has received payoff money from Ukraine. He will need to know EXACTLY who are America’s enemies and who cannot be trusted. The American ones should ALL be charged, regardless of party.


76 posted on 10/17/2024 8:42:50 PM PDT by Sgt_Schultze (When your business model depends on slave labor, you're always going to need more slaves.)
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To: ansel12

Nope, I’m not rewriting history years later. I said the same at the time. Putin sent in enough troops to rattle Zelensky into making a peace deal, and it nearly worked. No one who knows anything about real war would imagine the numbers were sufficient to conquer and occupy Ukraine.

Maybe “most everyone assumed Ukraine was going to disappear from the list of nations, and quickly” but not I. I didn’t buy the spin coming out Washington. I’ve seen that schtick before. Oh horrors! The eeevilll Russians are going to gobble up Ukraine! Oh wait, oh wow, the plucky Ukrainians are saving the day! Ghost of Kiev! Snake Island! Same old playbook they always use. Good grief, Charlie Brown. At least they didn’t repeat the babies being tossed out of incubators (Kuwait) or the stupid Viagra rape (Libya) nonsense.

I recognized immediately how the supposed offer from Washington to evacuate Zelensky from Kiev answered by his declaring “I need ammunition, not a ride” as reported in the news was likely cooked up in one of Ukraine’s American PR/lobbying firms. Finally, WaPo did a bit of “innoculation” or “damage control” or whatever you want to call it (after all, the smell of a PR man was strong):

https://web.archive.org/web/20240622021257/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/06/zelenskys-famous-quote-need-ammo-not-ride-not-easily-confirmed/

Yes, it’s how we do things. Kuwait had Hill & Knowlton (who cooked up the incubator babies); Bosnia-Hercegovina, Croatia and Kosovo’s KLA had Ruder Finn (who cooked up all kinds of stuff) — and remember how the first thing Hillary wanted the Libyan “rebels” to do with the funds she gave them was to hire a Washington PR/lobbying firm? Ukraine has a whole stable of PR/lobbying firms, including good old Hill & Knowlton. They spend millions on them, but get billions back from our pockets.

Anyway, in all fairness, I might well have fallen for it if I had not seen up close and personal how we do this stuff in our previous foreign adventures. I can’t fault you for believing it. And you will go on believing it. I used to believe this stuff. Then I saw for myself how we did this stuff in foreign lands. What has been seen cannot be unseen. We have different life experiences, and cannot agree on this. Time will tell how it all turns out.


77 posted on 10/17/2024 10:04:41 PM PDT by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: CatHerd

You didn’t say that here, but you have been seeing things in that meeting that aren’t there, for years.


78 posted on 10/18/2024 5:12:50 AM PDT by ansel12 ((NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.))
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To: ansel12

Trump has been consistent. Of course there’s the usual Trump bashing and Russia-Russia-Russia and rah-rah-Ukraine in these articles, but they do contain Trump quotes:

Trump says Ukraine’s Zelensky should ‘never have let that war start’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/17/trump-zelensky-ukraine-war-start/

In Rambling Interview, Trump Blames Zelensky, Not Putin, for Ukraine War
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/17/us/politics/trump-zelensky-putin-ukraine-war.html

Ah, now found this from the NYPost which spares us the over-the-top Trump bashing:

Trump points finger at Zelensky for Russia’s invasion: ‘He should never have let that war start’
https://nypost.com/2024/10/17/us-news/trump-points-finger-at-zelensky-for-russias-invasion-he-should-never-have-let-that-war-start/

Trump is right on this.


79 posted on 10/18/2024 6:44:06 AM PDT by CatHerd (Whoever said "All's fair in love and war" probably never participated in either.)
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To: marcusmaximus
It is good to know what Zelensky actually said, which was that they chose NATO, not nuclear weapons.

The news media rarely reports anything correctly. And then Putin's pals repeat it.

Zelensky's actual statement

80 posted on 10/18/2024 7:55:21 AM PDT by freeandfreezing
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