Posted on 08/06/2024 8:19:09 PM PDT by Reno89519
Stolen Valor: Stolen valor refers to the act of falsely claiming military service, awards, or decorations to obtain benefits, recognition, or other advantages. This can include wearing military uniforms, medals, or insignias one is not entitled to. It is illegal under the Stolen Valor Act of 2013, which specifically targets fraudulent claims made with the intent to gain money, property, or other tangible benefits.
As many have found, I am consistently defensive of respecting fellow veterans for their honorable service, for them as veterans, regardless of role, whether in combat or not, or how long they served.
I am equally unforgiving of anyone guilty of stolen valor, whether by legal definition or by societal expectation.
So, here are two cases to consider: Representative Ronny Jackson (25-year veteran) and Governor Tim Walz (24-year veteran).
First, Representative Ronny Jackson attained the rank of Rear Admiral but was demoted to Captain upon retirement. Yet, he goes around referring to himself as an admiral. That, to me, is stolen valor.
Second, Governor Tim Walz attained the rank of Command Sergeant Major, then retired as Master Sergeant. Yet, he goes around referring to himself as a Command Sergeant Major. That, to me, again, is stolen valor.
That's rather simple. Stolen valor is stolen valor.
While the details for the lower retired rank are different, Jackson was demoted due to an Inspector General report and Walz did not complete the steps to make the rank permanent, the end fact is they are officially retired at a lower rank.
I think both are equally guilty of stolen valor. Do you agree or not? And if not, does the fact that one is Republican and the other a Democrat play into that? And would you admit if true? :)
Any rank other than what is printed on the DD214, is a federal offense.
“First, Representative Ronny Jackson attained the rank of Rear Admiral but was demoted to Captain upon retirement. Yet, he goes around referring to himself as an admiral. That, to me, is stolen valor.”
I am ignorant. He was demoted in 2022 much after he retired. I saw that he didn’t update his congressional bio. Were there other instances where he referred to himself as Admiral?
“Second, Governor Tim Walz attained the rank of Command Sergeant Major, then retired as Master Sergeant. Yet, he goes around referring to himself as a Command Sergeant Major. That, to me, again, is stolen valor.”
Walz was demoted because he didn’t complete all requirements for his active rank. That was recognized while he was active and the demotion was recorded upon retirement. This resulted in a reduction of benefits. I don’t know how long he could remain active at that rank with unfinished quals.
Yes, I and many others have been claiming that he committed stolen valor for many, many years. But Connecticut voters keep reflecting him and the esteemed members of the US Senator won’t rightfully censor and boot him from the senate. I don’t live in Connecticut, so can’t to much but complain from a distance.
“People can get RIFed, and leave the service as an enlisted. If they retire, normal procedure is to pay (retired) at highest rank held.”
No. The benefits are paid based on your final pay.
Not sure in Jackson's case. He retired as a Rear Admiral, but two years later it was downgraded because apparently he hurt his subordinates feeling, or was a jerk depending on how you see it. It was a Biden appointee whom downgraded him. So we will never know if he was a butthole or a victim. Technically he should refer to himself as Captain. He served as an Admiral was reduced by a IG report but never went to a trial. Trump for instance introduced him as having “retired as an Admiral.” That is true. There was some hints he prescribed himself Ambient. I would have thought that would have warranted him being tried. Technically stolen valor. More like he feels the attack was political so he says screw you I identify as an Admiral.
They had the rank. Not stolen valor. President Trump isn’t President right now, but we still call him that. Stolen valor is claiming service or valor that never happened. I’ll cut them both some slack.
From the above-linked NavyTimes article:
The report, spurred by a dozen IG hotline complaints in spring 2018 after President Donald Trump nominated him to be Department of Veterans Affairs secretary...I can just imagine who these anonymous "hotline complainers" were. Jackson served in the Bush, Obama, and Trump administrations, but it was only under President Trump that complaints were filed with the Inspector General?
Was Jackson targeted as a part of an overall scheme to undermine the Trump administration? Look at all the others in the Trump administration who were targeted by the left at the same time.
-PJ
He was actually demoted years ago and never told anyone or changed anything.
As of today, months and years later, his congressional website, for example, still sails rear admiral.
President Trump left office as president, he is still entitled to that title. Both Jackson and Walz are no longer entitled to theirs.
“You have to hold the rank for 2-3 years, depending on the grade, to retire at that grade.”
Final Pay Defined Benefit that equals 2.5% times the number of years of service times the member’s final basic pay on the day of retirement Primary retirement plan for Reserve members with initial date of entry into service prior to September 8, 1980
High-36 Defined Benefit that equals 2.5% times the number of years of service times the average of the member’s highest 36 months of basic pay
Final Pay Defined Benefit that equals 2.5% times the number of years of service times the member’s final basic pay on the day of retirement Primary retirement plan for Reserve members with initial date of entry into service prior to September 8, 1980
High-36 Defined Benefit that equals 2.5% times the number of years of service times the average of the member’s highest 36 months of basic pay
The letter written by Walz's accusers say that it was a "provisional" rank dependent upon completing the Command Sergeant Major Academy. He dropped out of the Academy and his provisional rank was withdrawn.
This is probably a bad analogy, but here it goes:
Suppose you are 16 and have a restricted learner's driver's license that limits your driving privileges to daylight hours until you pass the driving test and receive your permanent license. Can you claim to have been a "licensed" diver if you never take the driver's test and your learner's license is expired?
-PJ
In the Navy, one can be advanced in rank in a "frocked" status meaning that they are awarded with wearing the uniform and insignia of the higher rank, and the responsibilities this higher rank entails, but they will still collect the pay of their lower rank until they are no longer frocked. This can take several months.
If a PO1 (E6) gets selected as Chief (E7) and goes through Chief initiation and finally acceptance, he is allowed to wear the uniform of a Chief and to call himself a Navy Chief. However, he may still be getting paid as an E6 for several months. He may even get an ID that says (confusingly) CPO/E6.
Now, let's say he made Chief at 19.5 years but still had plans to retire at 20. He could call himself a Chief at retirement and wear the uniform of a Chief. He had been accepted as a Chief by the CPO Mess. But he will not be paid as a Chief and his retirement pay would be that of a First Class Petty Officer.
Is this stolen valor?
To be honest, I don't know all of the details surrounding Tim Walz. I'm just presenting a scenario where someone could conceivably, and rightly, refer themselves as a different rank than the one they retired at.
“He was actually demoted years ago and never told anyone or changed anything.”
He was demoted in 2022. From 2019 to 2022 he was officially an admiral.
And for two years he didn’t bother correcting anything or anyone. Even now, once made public, he hasn’t corrected it.
Is a "provisional" rank the same as an "active" rank in your mind?
-PJ
“This is probably a bad analogy, but here it goes:”
Try this. Some states have a program where a degreed person can start teaching but are required to complete certain requirements within a certain time.
While they are teaching they can refer to themselves as a teacher.
If they don’t complete the requirements they can only say they WERE a teacher.
Other examples are available. My wife’s brother was given a provisional promotion by Sacramento County based on his job performance. Normally one had to take the required test before promotion. He was given a date by which to pass the exam. He partied, smoked weed and flunked. Demoted. Wife divorced him.
Governor Tim Walz attained the rank of Command Sergeant Major, then retired as Master Sergeant. Yet, he goes around referring to himself as a Command Sergeant Major.
......................................
Walz’s CSM rank was conditional. He didn’t complete his leadership academy so he reverted back to E8. His rank would have been CSM until the personnel action officially reverted him back. If he’s still going around as CSM he is wrong and bringing dishonor upon himself. No service member is going to respect that.
“Is a “provisional” rank the same as an “active” rank in your mind?”
He has the rank. It is a promotion. There is no “Provisional Admiral”.
Well, let’s see here, major general George Custer of the Civil War reverted back to the rank of lieutenant colonel after the war was over. he actually was retired I believe for a few years and then recalled back to active service as a lieutenant colonel. But he was always referred to as general Custer by almost everyone, except the general officers that he reported to.
So is that stolen valor? He was killed on active duty.
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