Posted on 08/06/2024 11:12:14 AM PDT by SteveH
i believe texas has explicitly reserved the right to secede when it joined the USA. also the constitution does not prohibit other states and while the war between the states was fought over this, there was never a court case to determine this.
looking at a 2020 map of blue and red counties, it seems apparent that most counties favor trump. this can reasonably be expected to continue through 2024.
if the election fraud continues in 2024 as is widely anticipated, what would prohibit
1. texas state from peacefully seceding and forming an independent republic of texas
2. individual counties peacefully seceding from their states and joining texas.
i posit this as a peaceful alternative to (violent) civil war.
in this manner, most counties across the USA can peacefully secede, eventually leaving isolated clumps of socialist cities such as New York City, San Francisco, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc.
Nothing would prevent such socialist cities from remaining in whatever is left of the USA once secession is complete.
The new republic of texas government could be a clone of the USA government, minus the 16th and 17th amendment.
this hypothetical proposal would be supported by the words at the beginning of the declaration of independence.
nothing in this hypothetical proposal should be construed as advocating violence.
> Our situation is much worse—we are dealing with power mad leftists who want to hurt us and cause us pain—wherever we are.
actually, the globalist plan seems to be to move almost everyone from the countryside (where most of the trump support is) to cities (which are mostly already under control of liberals).
this effort continues under the guise of other goals such as EVs replacing combustion based vehicles for the purposes of minimizing so-called anthropogenic climate change.
2024 is probably the last hurrah of agrarian USA and the citizen farmer.
> I’d recommend to anyone who wants to have an actual discussion, try talking about “Partition,” as in the 1940s partition of India and Pakistan. I’m not saying I favor partition, either. But you may get a much bigger audience by shifting to partition as agreed to by both partiws, than sticking with secession by an unhappy party
might be a good idea.
as for india-pakistan bloodbath consideration, in practice no one in the usa pays attention to foreign affairs anyways (at least not until there is a sinking of the maine, zimmerman telegram, pearl harbor, or equivalent).
“Don’t get me wrong—I fully agree with you. I think TX should secede. Fedzilla has broken the covenant and no longer deserves loyalty.’
I VERY much hope that does NOT happen.
if TX goes... I suspect Fla, Nd, SD, Id, Mt, Wy, Ok, La(?) possibly others would join.
No turning back once that starts. But, I think that a LOT of entities would very much like to see the US broken up. As a way of taking over, parting it up or destroying it.
There is no way around it. Even as disfunctional as it may be at this point. We are far stronger as a single entity.
And if some sort of break up hapens, Who is to say it is JUST the US? Could Wa and BC form a single country? Mt, Nd and Alberta? an Independant Country of Alaska? It could easily go Balkans.. The Islamic Republic of DeerBornistan..
> Look up Texas v. White in 1869. Chief Justice Chase stated that the Union is permanent and indivisible.
ok i will shelve that in memory right next to scott v. sandford.
i’m thinking that if it is 2000 counties mostly with guns versus 30 counties largely without guns, which side is more likely to win?
and f-16 bombings may elicit shock and awe, but don’t win the war on the ground.
if one had to choose between the principle of self determination as a g*d given right and the institution of the supreme court, which one wins?
(who knows, the self determination question might be behind the biden push for reforming the USSC.)
it struck me as funny (although not haha funny) that so many judges, journalists, politicians and pundits could come out of the closet and exclaim with straight face that texas had no right to protect its citizens by enforcing federal border crossing laws.
the feds should be working on behalf of the individual sovereign states, not vice versa.
There is no process. And at the moment despotism requiring survival via secession arrives...6 years is too long to ask someone to wait.
The scary truth, is that the main thing keeping it all together is finance and armed force.
A state going it alone is going to have to look hard as to whether or not they can succeed economically. And if a state decides to break away, no court decision or sorority rules will stop them. Only force will do that. And these days that would be an open question if the DC occupation government would try that. Texas for example is much bigger than Iraq, and a little bigger than Afghanistan. Those soaked up our military for 20 years.
Now take away Texas contribution to the military, and let the remainder try to take over Texas by force.
I don’t see any of this in the short term, but I cannot avoid admitting it is the fate of every conglomerate nation on earth. Yugoslavia, The USSR, the further subdivision of Ukraine, India into two, then into three.
It is in our future unless there is a hard turn back to constitutional principles. However, if the state atheism, revolutionary socialism and anarcho=tyranny of DC gets worse, children alive now will certainly see it.
We could bargain ... and, give El Paso to NM :D
“Sounds like that Supreme Court decision would have to be overturned.”
Or more likely, given the finger. The things that would compel a state to leave, would naturally cause them to also not ask permission. DC would not invade, but they would try to use heavy economic warfare. And remember, a breakup would not happen with a healthy happy US economy. It would be most likely when DC and America was utterly wiped out, worse than a depression. That would be when someone wanted to leave, so DC would likely find it hard to find money or soldiers to stop the departure.
> I don’t see any of this in the short term, but I cannot avoid admitting it is the fate of every conglomerate nation on earth. <
Totally agree. We used to celebrate the Melting Pot. Now we are celebrating (and actually forcing) diversity. That is exactly the wrong thing to do if you want to hold this country together.
When my grandparents came over from the old country, they were forced to learn English. So they put the old ways behind them and became Americans.
Now, if an immigrant comes over, there’s no need to learn English. If you’re, say, Chinese request government forms in Chinese. You’ll get them.
It’s crazy.
> 2. W/O Tx, and likely other (red) states joining in w/ Tx. It allows those states that remain w/in the “US” to move very quickly MORE left and join whatever conglomeration they want.
actually i came to my hypothetical vision after contemplation of the red/blue counties map (along with attempting to come up with non-violent alternatives to unintended consequences style visions and so on).
in a hypothetical unintended consequences style vision, or at least my version of it, states would not be pitted against states, but communities would be pitted against communities.
for example, in georgia, it would be hypothetically atlanta versus everyone in georgia outside of atlanta.
that is, hypothetically, roadblocks, food delivery, and and utility cutoffs. resulting in total capitulation of cities within about 3 weeks.
note that, whether some folks like it or otherwise, most airbases are located outside the cities.
i’m hypothetically giving the cities the benefit of doubt that they can survive a passives land based siege.
maybe the eastern and western seaboard cities would remain afloat via sea trade. but then it would become obvious that this is a form of foreign support or foreign interference. not quite what the founding fathers envisioned as a model of independence.
They were all happy that the Communists were losing power, so there wasn't much fighting at the time. Most of the borders had something to do with language, so they were less likely to be contested. Russians and others were only to happy to leave new countries that would be Muslim dominated (The situation with Russians in Estonia and Latvia is less likely to be resolved).
Still, Russia vs. Georgia, Russians vs. Chechens, Russians vs. Ingushetians, Russians vs. Daghestanis, Georgians vs. Abkhazians and Ossetians, Azerbaijan vs. Armenia, Transdnistria vs. Moldova, Russia vs. Ukraine. Plenty of wars.
> Advocating, no. But do you really expect the left not to react violently? And their media lapdogs to not blame us?
certainly the lapdogs can yap. it is what they do. but who acts on yapping alone?
Texas was formally readmitted to the Union in 1870
Scotus, in Texas v. White, called ours an indestructable union of indestructable states. It denied that any of the states left the union, or could leave the union. Texas was not readmitted to the union in 1870 but declared reconstructed.
All the twaddle ignored the fact the Vermont seceded in 1777 and joined the constitutional union in 1791. It joined not under the procedure for a territory, but as a free, sovereign and independent state, with self-appointed borders. Vermont v. New Hampshire, 289 U.S. 593, 607-608 (1933)
When the first constitutional government was formed, Washington was elected President with the votes of ten of the eleven states then in that union. NY did not participate, and NC and RI had not ratified the Constitution and were not in that union. Eleven states seceded from the Articles of Confederation union without the unanimous consent to change a word of the Articles.
From Texas v. White, the dissenting opinion of Justice Grier:
Now, whether we assume the State of Texas to be judicially in the Union (though actually out of it) or not, it will not alter the case. The contest now is between the State of Texas and her own citizens. She seeks to annul a contract with the respondents, based on the allegation that there was no authority in Texas competent to enter into an agreement during the rebellion. Having relied upon one fiction, namely, that she is a State in the Union, she now relies upon a second one, which she wishes this court to adopt, that she was not a State at all during the five years that she was in rebellion. She now sets up the plea of insanity, and asks the court to treat all her acts made during the disease as void.
nevada seems to be going to vote by mail.
other states have already done this or are intending to follow this.
uncontrolled vote fraud will lead to a 2024 repeat of 2020.
the question is, what happens after a fraudulent 2024 vote?
how can peaceful self determination be effected after a fraudulent 2024 vote?
If you think the fraud is bad now, wait until we go to Internet voting.
Texans of today in no way resemble those of 60 years ago.
They are literally obese, physically and mentally...and drunk on UT football (or the equivalent) and “Texas Priiiiiiiiiiiide” without having contributed anything to making Texas great.
Can you see Austin (the Capitol)...”Keep Austin Weird”, San Antonio, Houston seceding...that’s where the money and power are and that is where the wokism is. Wow...dude...reality check here.
I wish Texas would secede, (I live in Texas) but it never will.
Problem with Americans is that by now most of us have become drunk on Bread and Circuses.
We continue to call the wokists stupid, insane, sick, nuts, crazy, and nothing could be further from the truth. They all have college degrees and often “advanced” degrees...and therefore we’ll have to redefine “stupid”.
NB, no one ever called Stalin or Hitler stupid; that’s because they weren’t...instead they were evil...just like the wokists.
> Texans of today in no way resemble those of 60 years ago.
They are literally obese, physically and mentally...and drunk on UT football (or the equivalent) and “Texas Priiiiiiiiiiiide” without having contributed anything to making Texas great.
> Can you see Austin (the Capitol)...”Keep Austin Weird”, San Antonio, Houston seceding...that’s where the money and power are and that is where the wokism is. Wow...dude...reality check here.
> I wish Texas would secede, (I live in Texas) but it never will.
> Problem with Americans is that by now most of us have become drunk on Bread and Circuses.
(sigh) I see your point.
I would prefer not to concede if only because I have difficulty envisioning a viable hypothetical non-violent alternative.
In my original hypothetical vision, texas would become the central leadership point of a nationwide peaceful assertion of self government. i think such a point, a geographical point, would be necessary for partitioning to occur successfully (non-violently or otherwise).
otherwise, at least in what little would be left of my hypothetical vision with your input, 2024 could be a very bleak year and the future of USA could be a very bleak future.
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