Posted on 08/06/2024 11:12:14 AM PDT by SteveH
i believe texas has explicitly reserved the right to secede when it joined the USA. also the constitution does not prohibit other states and while the war between the states was fought over this, there was never a court case to determine this.
looking at a 2020 map of blue and red counties, it seems apparent that most counties favor trump. this can reasonably be expected to continue through 2024.
if the election fraud continues in 2024 as is widely anticipated, what would prohibit
1. texas state from peacefully seceding and forming an independent republic of texas
2. individual counties peacefully seceding from their states and joining texas.
i posit this as a peaceful alternative to (violent) civil war.
in this manner, most counties across the USA can peacefully secede, eventually leaving isolated clumps of socialist cities such as New York City, San Francisco, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc.
Nothing would prevent such socialist cities from remaining in whatever is left of the USA once secession is complete.
The new republic of texas government could be a clone of the USA government, minus the 16th and 17th amendment.
this hypothetical proposal would be supported by the words at the beginning of the declaration of independence.
nothing in this hypothetical proposal should be construed as advocating violence.
“ i believe texas has explicitly reserved the right to secede when it joined the USA”
That always works in court.
Saying, judge, I believe this.
My county and the one to our south are the two red dots in a sea of blue on the New Jersey coast. We'd be trapped behind enemy lines.
I thought I recall hearing about a court case in which the Supreme Court declared there is no right to secede.
Anyone else recall this?
I believe it was a case brought right after the Civil War, and had something to do with connections of the states to each other , and to the Union.
That's a mighty big "if". You know there will be broken pipes, power outages, long lines, hacking claims, etc. in traditional Red strongholds.
Common misconception, but incorrect.
The United States has said many times that we believe in self-determination. We lecture other countries about this constantly. People have the right to determine their own political future!
So if, say, Scotland wants to secede from the UK, why not? Put it to a vote. Majority rules.
There is, however, one exception to all this. Our states do not have that right. Try it anyway, and General Sherman will come knocking at your door. And it won’t be a friendly visit.
“I thought I recall hearing about a court case in which the Supreme Court declared there is no right to secede.”
And the Supreme Court told Biden he could not fogive student loans too..
If Tx goes.. Maybe Congress will subpoena them and hold them in contempt!!
Advocating, no. But do you really expect the left not to react violently? And their media lapdogs to not blame us?
The Texas Tribune contributes this:
“...Texas in 1861 voted to secede from the Union. In the ensuing Civil War, up to 750,000 people — more than 2 percent of all Americans — died. Following the defeat of the Confederacy in 1865, Texas was formally readmitted to the Union in 1870, during the Reconstruction Era. Many historians believe that when the Confederacy surrendered at Appomattox in 1865, the idea of secession was forever defeated, McDaniel said. The Union’s victory set a precedent that states could not legally secede.
Even before Texas formally rejoined the nation, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that secession had never been legal, and that, even during the rebellion, Texas continued to be a state.”
Sounds like that Supreme Court decision would have to be overturned.
Yeah, see my Number 10.
Another problem is using the word “secession.” That immediately brings to mind the Civil War and the acceped principle that secession is not allowed. I don’t think success lies in that direction.
I’d recommend to anyone who wants to have an actual discussion, try talking about “Partition,” as in the 1940s partition of India and Pakistan. I’m not saying I favor partition, either. But you may get a much bigger audience by shifting to partition as agreed to by both partiws, than sticking with secession by an unhappy party
“Common misconception, but incorrect.”
Not really..
Texas stops remitting taxes.
Texas says “we’re done”
US can invade Texas. Is the USAF going to carpet bomb Dallas? The USMC going to “Shock and Awe” Lubbock? USN going to Storm the Beaches of Houston/ Corpus Christie?
if Texas says “No Mas”.. Does the US have the will and stomach to back it up militarily?
Over time they may have received some legal status due to court case, but it is my understanding that if a state wanted to eliminate all cities and counties and govern everything on the state level this would be allowed by the Constitution.
Of course, if a state had given counties and cities individual legal status in the past they would have to go through legal means to eliminate those distinctions, but if the people voted for it then everything could be done at the state level.
So the idea that individual counties or cities could decide to secede is utopian at best and delusional at worst.
If anything, the historical process has been more and more centralization of government rather than decentralizations. The Constitution has been used by progressives to advance individual rights over all others. The ultimate point is to completely atomize the public so that it is a bunch of deracinated individuals governed by a single central bureaucracy.
This is why libertarians are ultimately not the friends of conservatives because they overvalue individual rights over the rights of all of the intermediate institutions such as the family, church, fraternal organizations, cities, counties, etc. that protect the individual from the leviathan state.
““Partition,” as in the 1940s partition of India and Pakistan.”
For those who don’t recall that was a total bloodbath.
Some of the Eastern Europe breakups after the fall of the Soviet Union are probably a more pleasant example—even though of course Yugoslavia became a hot mess.
Our situation is much worse—we are dealing with power mad leftists who want to hurt us and cause us pain—wherever we are.
The notion that good faith negotiation is possible with such people is beyond belief.
> I’d recommend to anyone who wants to have an actual discussion, try talking about “Partition,” … <
You’re right. Good thinking.
Side note: The partition of India and Pakistan devolved into a bloody mess. On the other hand, the partition of the old USSR was rather peaceful. So it will be interesting (for the lack of a better word) to see which direction the US will ultimately take.
And I suppose there will be a partition, even if it’s a 100 years from now. That always seems to be the end game for “diverse” societies.
The bottom line, no matter what Fedzilla and their courts say, the right to self determination is the absolute cornerstone of America and human liberty. The Federal Republic is not a suicide pact.
It is right in the Declaration of Independence in very wide permissive language.
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security”.
So yes... the founders would never agree that there was no right to separate, though they likely would have tried to stop it with everything short of force.
Another way to look at this..
If Kamala is in office.. And TX decides to leave.
It may be encouraged by Kamala (aka Soros/ CCP etc) to ALLOW them to peacefully leave.
1. It facilitates the destruction/ break up of the US, which really is the long term goal.
2. W/O Tx, and likely other (red) states joining in w/ Tx. It allows those states that remain w/in the “US” to move very quickly MORE left and join whatever conglomeration they want.
3. w/o TX and red states. They can quite easily embrace green energy, “welcoming” sanctuary to all, Health Care for all, “better” education for all, etc.. the Red states are holding them back from being the Utopia they envision.
Nothing lasts forever!
-Ask the people/countries of the former USSR
-Ask Germany who has won and lost boatloads of land area over the last century or so
-Ask the many other countries all around the globe who have upsized and downsized
-Ask Harry and Sam, who got married (to each other) when there are 3000 or so years of precedence against such nonsense
-Ask those who loved Roe v Wade
-Ask Zelensky, who no longer owns Crimea or 25% of their eastern territory
Yes. The last civil war settled the case -- until the next civil war.
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