Ukraine military destroys Russian surveillance plane

Al Arabiya ^ | 2/23/2024 | Reuters

[marcusmaximus]

Ukraine’s military has destroyed a Russian A-50 surveillance aircraft, Air Force Commander Mykola Oleshchuk said on Friday.

“The A-50 with the call sign ‘Bayan’ has flown its last!” Oleshchuk wrote on the Telegram messaging app.

Developing

[delta7]

Why is it that Russia/Putin people are so fixated on gender identity and sexuality issues
————-
It is a morality issue, the collective West pushes Trans, Gay marriage, installs XYZ’s in every branch of government, puts boys in girls bathrooms, promotes destruction of the family, promotes men in woman’s sports, etc…..and then codifies it into law! ….I can see the immorality and degeneracy of this does not bother you….destruction of Western society, by their own hands.

On the other hand, Russia opposes this western degeneracy.

[JonPreston]

[BroJoeK]

gleeaikin: "So, Republicans in office from early 1969 to early 1977, during which Saigon fell in 1975."

The Republican narrative is: Saigon fell because Congressional Democrats cut-off support for our South Vietnam allies.
The Democrats' counter-narrative is that they never cut off all support, and anyway, the Nixon-tapes revealed that Nixon himself intended to let South Vietnam fall, in due time.

The truth of it is as follows:

1. In 1972 North Vietnamese launched a massive 300,000 man invasion of South Vietnam called the Easter Offensive.
   South Vietnamese forces were pushed back in April 1972, but in May stabilized the front and were able to retake most of their lost territories by September.

2. In 1972 US military aid to South Vietnam, in today's dollars, was roughly the levels the US supplied Ukraine since February 2022.
   That proved to be just barely enough to help South Vietnam defeat North Vietnam's Easter Offensive invasion.
   Pres. Nixon promised South Vietnam's government that the US would support them with massive bombing, should the North invade again.

3. But, in 1974 Democrats in Congress reduced Pres. Nixon's request for aid to South Vietnam by more than half and then refused to provide any additional aid, as requested by Pres. Ford, after the North's invasion of March 1975.
   The US provided the South no additional support in 1975.

4. At the same time, Soviet and Chinese aid to North Vietnam, while less than for the 1972 Easter Offensive, was double what it had been in 1970.

5. The North Vietnamese 1975 invasion was somewhat larger than 1972's and was more concentrated on Saigon.

6. At the end of April 1975, South Vietnamese, somewhat like our Afghan allies in 2021, saw the lack of US support and collapsed after two months' fighting.

For our radical Democrats, the fall of Saigon in 1975 was a win-win -- America was defeated and humiliated and they got to falsely blame Republicans for it.

At least with Afghanistan, Democrats must take 100% responsibility for their own bad behavior... not that they ever will, but voters might.

Today I think we can depend on Democrats to support Ukraine until they can figure out a way to blame and humiliate Republicans for Ukraine's loss.
And, sadly, too many Republicans seem to want to help Democrats accomplish their political goals in this.

[BroJoeK]

Darksheare: "Two things that are important in war.
One, don’t do pointless wars and two, don’t half ass it when you do go to war.
Our leadership either ignores or refuses to consider those points.
I swear they’re purposely weakening our country."

Those are my views exactly.
By your word "leadership" I would mean Democrats 100%, Republicans, sadly, about 50%.

[gleeaikin]

My husband got decent care from VA Hospital until he died of Alzheimers in 2005. Don’t know if that was a good or bad period in general for VA care in east coast areas.

[gleeaikin]

Iinternational socialism (communism) pretty much died with Trotsky. He had to die so Stalin could focus on the greater Soviet effort, without major ideological competition. After WW2, one significant Stalin effort was his effort to subvert US east and west coast ports through US labor unions. My father was heavily engaged in that anti-communist fight.

[gleeaikin]

I wonder how many other Republicans besides Johnson were offered contributions by companies owned or guided by Putin loving Russians. Even though he returned the money, the question persists, Why did they think he would be receptive to their attention?

[Darksheare]

My area of NY the VA has never been good overall.
But there was a time between 200 and 2008 where they actually did make an effort.
And if you contact the VA to see what is available and open to you, they immediately want to go disability.
I’m not disabled, and resources going towards that for me would be better used elsewhere for other current and former soldiers who need it more.
NY VA is infamous for having mold in the suction bottles in their hospitals.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: thoughts? "Russia will go to war with NATO if troops are deployed to Ukraine, says the Kremlin"

A lot of brave talk.
French President Macron understands that Europeans need to step up and take responsibility for their own defenses since they cannot depend on the USA to do everything for them.
Macron is now saying Europeans should send troops to serve inside Ukraine.
Almost no other EU leaders agree with Macron.

In return, Russians threaten they will go to war against NATO -- more brave talk, hopefully it won't come to any of that.

What would seriously help Ukraine is less brave talk and more actual ammunition.

But that's just me talking, of course.

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "you Neocons."

So say our 1960s era pro-Russian Communist anti-war flower children, now posing as MAGA conservatives so they can call actual Old School conservatives "neo-cons", or whatever.

[Darksheare]

I’m not the one following what the Dems, Davos, the WEF, and Soros want.
Ask yourself, why do they want our borders open and ignored while shrieking hysterics about foreign borders and pensions?
You can draw all the false equivalency you want, it won’t make it true.
But it sure will be shown whether you support America or owe allegiance to foreign powers.
And when I served I sure as hell didn’t swear an oath to any other flag or ideals other than our own.

[BroJoeK]

delta7: "Meanwhile, three more US Patriot systems confirmed destroyed, making a total of four batteries…..pretty expensive, but hey, the US taxpayers are funding this misadventure…."

Or so it's claimed by the Kremlin's Ministry for Agitation and Propaganda, but confirmed by... confirmed by... ???
Confirmed by nobody anywhere.

Nor is it known how many such systems are now operating in Ukraine, so claims of having destroyed 4 Patriots are equivalent to other Russian claims of having shot down far more Ukrainian jet fighters than Ukraine ever possessed.

[BroJoeK]

gleeaikin: "Iinternational socialism (communism) pretty much died with Trotsky.
He had to die so Stalin could focus on the greater Soviet effort, without major ideological competition."

Sure, and we can debate the definitions of such words all day long.
But the Soviets under Stalin called themselves "communists" and defined "communism" as "international socialism", meaning revolutionary movements to bring socialist communism to countries worldwide, naturally under Soviet Russian authority.

My point here is simply that all these groups -- Communists, socialists, fascists, Nazis, etc. -- are the same basic idea of authoritarian, oppressive, military-oriented dictatorships which own or control the economic means of production (along with everything else) for purposes of expanding their "revolutions" beyond their own borders.

[BroJoeK]

delta to gleeaikin: "It is a morality issue, the collective West

1. pushes Trans, Gay marriage,
2. installs XYZ’s in every branch of government,
3. puts boys in girls bathrooms,
   
4. promotes destruction of the family,
5. promotes men in woman’s sports, etc…..and then
6. codifies it into law! ….

I can see the immorality and degeneracy of this does not bother you….destruction of Western society, by their own hands."

We've dealt with your listing before, here.
But maybe it'll help to review:

1. "Gay marriage" -- US same-sex marriage was effectively legalized nationally in 2015 with the SCOTUS Obergefell v. Hodges ruling.
   I've seen no evidence that "the West" "pushes" gay or Trans marriage.
   Russian law bans same-sex marriages and what this has to do with Vlad the Invader's "special military operations" in 2000 (Chechnya), 2008 (Georgia) 2014 (Ukraine) or 2022 (Ukraine), is not at all clear.

2. "XYZ's in government" -- Going back to the 1990s under Pres. Clinton, official US policy was "don't ask, don't tell".
   Under Obama and especially Biden it's been more like, "let it all hang out".
   What exactly the policy was under Pres. Trump, or will be under a new Trump administration, is not clear, but for sure Trump will not grant special privileges to people of unusual sexual orientations.

3. "Boys in girls bathrooms" -- I can't find evidence of very many "transgender" boys competing in girl's high school sports, plus legislatures and congress have moved to outlaw it.
   So, if as now seems likely, Trump-led Republicans sweep a trifecta in November, this all will quickly become a non-issue in the future.

4. "Destruction of the family" goes back to at least the 1960s era Civil Rights and LBJ's "Great Society" legislation, which effectively made poor and black women wives of the government, now paying them to remain single mothers.
   If you fantasize this problem is somehow different in Russia than anywhere else, then you've been smoking something illegal.

5. "Men in women's sports" I think is already quite uncommon and should become non-existent after 2025.

The bottom line is that while Russians overall are claimed to have suddenly gone from nearly 50% atheists to around 65% Christians in recent years, however... the serial murderer, the Old Soviet KGB LtCol Vlad the Invader, himself is alleged to have illegitimate children by a lovely mistress, former world champion gymnast named Alina Kabaeva.
So much for alleged traditional Christian Russian family values:

Then there's Svetlana Krivonogikh (left below), another Putin mistress by whom there is alleged to be at least one love child, Luiza Rozova (right below).

None of this has anything to do with Vlad the Invader's "special military operations" in Ukraine, or our duty to help defeat him there.

[JonPreston]

Here's some additional Old School conservatives like yourself, all who share the same, sick foreign policy position

[JonPreston]

Still drooling for American military involvement in Ukraine?

You better think twice

PS: It's great to have you back. You tried to duck out on me, and I simply can't have that.

Now, FILL this response up with words!

[BroJoeK]

Darksheare: "I’m not the one following what the Dems, Davos, the WEF, and Soros want."

I'm guessing, is this your way of denying that you are nothing more than a 1960s era pro-Russian Communist peacenik flowerchild now cleaned up & come back to lecture Old School Conservatives like me for being somehow "neo-cons", right?

I'm saying, what you have in common with those old flowerchildren is, they were pro-Russian, anti-American, anti-establishment and anti-war.
They supported victory for the bad guys and defeat for the good guys and they accomplished this magical morality transformation by redefining the US as "bad guys" and the actual bad guys, Communist North Vietnamese, as just poor little freedom fighters.

Our 1960s era peaceniks attacked all the same people you attack, especially "the establishment" and international globalists which they called "capitalists" or "big business", but they're the same people.
And of course, they mocked the dominant morality and hypocrisy of societal norms.
Plus, the 1960s were plenty long enough ago that its flowerchildren then -- who wanted "peace, love and rock & roll" -- could easily find today's official morals odd enough to make them squeamish, if not nauseated.

Darksheare: "Ask yourself, why do they want our borders open and ignored while shrieking hysterics about foreign borders and pensions?"

Sorry, but that argument is nonsensical.
No conservative or Republican wants open borders, and everyone should grasp a fundamental idea, that our borders are open for one and only one reason (it's not about the money!!) -- it's because our Democrats want our borders open, period.
Our borders will be closed again once Democrats are removed from political power over them.

This has nothing whatever to do with Ukraine -- zero, zip, nada, zilch, null to do with Ukraine.

Darksheare: "You can draw all the false equivalency you want, it won’t make it true."

You mean between pro-Russian, anti-American, anti-war, anti-globalist peaceniks in the 1960s and today?
Eh.... I agree you guys cleaned yourselves up a little, not so much with the "sex, drugs, rock & roll" anymore, but otherwise... you seem all the same to me.

Darksheare: "But it sure will be shown whether you support America or owe allegiance to foreign powers."

Meaning what, exactly?
Is this typical Russian and Democrat propaganda -- you're going to accuse me of your own bad behavior?

I'd say supporting Ukrainians' rights of independence and self-defense have nothing to do with "allegiance to foreign powers", but insanely supporting Vlad the Invader's "rights" to conquer Ukraine I'd say absolutely does.

Darksheare: "And when I served I sure as hell didn’t swear an oath to any other flag or ideals other than our own."

Nor did I, then or any time since.
For three years I "stood guard" as a NATO soldier in West Germany, near the Fulda Gap, to prevent the Old Soviets from doing in Germany exactly what they are today doing in Ukraine.

My service proved that "peace through strength" works.
Their invasions of Ukraine prove what happens when Russians perceive weakness on their borders.

That's what it's all about, pure and simple, regardless of how cleaned up and seemingly respectable our 1960s flowerchildren have gotten since then.

And we can see, even way back then, they weren't all hippy-chick commune types:

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "Here's some additional Old School conservatives like yourself, all who share the same, sick foreign policy position"

None of those people are "Old School conservatives", they are all radical anti-American Democrats -- one was a traitor to his country, and another even shamefully posed as a Republican.

The fact that they temporarily side with Ukraine is fortunate for now, but you can be certain they will abandon Ukraine on the day they can figure out how to blame Ukraine's defeat on Republicans.

And, sadly, many Republicans are all too eager to help them accomplish that goal.

These are their true colors:

[JonPreston]

Theu ALL share the same NEOCONSERVATIVE foreign policy vision, a vision you share.

Aren't you embarassed to be associated with them?

[BroJoeK]

JonPreston: "Still drooling for American military involvement in Ukraine?
You better think twice"

Don't be silly, regardless of whatever French Pres. Macron says, the US will not be sending ground combat troops to fight in Ukraine.

I expect all the nonsense in the US military to end on January 20, 2025.
And that will make having to send US troops to fight overseas even less likely.