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All V-22 Ospreys Grounded Worldwide
The War Zone ^ | PUBLISHED DEC 6, 2023 9:22 PM EST | HOWARD ALTMAN, JOSEPH TREVITHICK

Posted on 12/07/2023 7:11:32 AM PST by Yo-Yo

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To: Yo-Yo; freedomjusticeruleoflaw
The price of the F-16 has changed over the years, with early variants selling for around $13 million and more recent variants starting at $25 to $30 million but potentially reaching $60 to $70 million with improvements.
.
The unit cost of an f35 will average about $75 million a copy, but that is without the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine. With the engine, the last three-lot deal achieved a unit cost below $80 million per jet.

21 posted on 12/07/2023 8:15:20 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (THE ISSUE IS NEVER THE ISSUE. THE REVOLUTION IS THE ISSUE.)
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To: Yo-Yo
I was lining up a contract to perform vibration signature analysis on the double diaphragm that couples the rotors on the left and right side. The manufacturer wanted to analyze the material to forecast when it would fail and set an appropriate replacement point. The principal challenge was the data acquisition of the vibration on the diaphragms. Unfortunately, my boss fumbled the contract in the midst of having open heart surgery. I've been waiting to see when/if the diaphragms would fail and start splashing aircraft.
22 posted on 12/07/2023 8:25:53 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: freedomjusticeruleoflaw

“Only because you can buy 20 Blackhawk helicopters for every V22.”

A few V22s might be able to offer a military advantage that makes it worth that much. Or that was true when the aircraft was put into service. Now, with all sorts of unmanned aircraft, it might no longer be true.

I can see where the V22 would be a more complex thing to keep stable, and more complex in general than a helicopter.


23 posted on 12/07/2023 8:30:15 AM PST by cymbeline
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To: Yo-Yo

One of my best friends and my college roommate was a Phrog driver in the Marine Corps for 12 years starting around 1998 or so until 2010. So they were still around for a long time after the Ospreys came along. He did a couple tours in Iraq with the “Battle Phrog”.


24 posted on 12/07/2023 8:43:26 AM PST by FLT-bird
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To: freedomjusticeruleoflaw
Yeah, I’ll hate on it. Only because you can buy 20 Blackhawk helicopters for every V22. And you can buy 50 F16s for every F35 and so on.

...and have to find the crews to man them.

The military took delivery of 742 B-52s but only 21 B-2s. Given the choice, the DoD prefers equipment costs over manpower costs.

25 posted on 12/07/2023 8:45:57 AM PST by T.B. Yoits
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To: Yo-Yo
Good info at the link. I was disappointed at the contract fumble. My co-worker did some excellent analysis on railcar bearing. 55 different defects discernible from the vibration signature. My task was to do the data acquisition, run the FFTs and send the data to a database to tease out the defects. I think we could have done a similar job for the Osprey, but never had the opportunity.
26 posted on 12/07/2023 8:54:00 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: Yo-Yo

Every Navy SEAL sighs a breath of relief. 😏


27 posted on 12/07/2023 9:02:22 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped)
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To: Myrddin
Too bad you weren't able to pursue investigation into the Osprey's drivetrain longevity issues.

When the Marines and Air Force first acquired the Osprey, the engines were bought with a "power by the hour" maintenance contract from Rolls-Royce. The government paid a flat rate per flight hour, and Rolls-Royce was responsible for all engine maintenance.

Rolls-Royce lost their shirts early on with this deal, as the Liberty engine was failing at a much faster rate than predicted in Afghanistan and Iraq. But that incentivized Rolls to upgrade and improve the engine reliability. Something they wouldn't necessarily have done so aggressively had the Power by the Hour contract not been in place, and they were just selling spare parts to the Marine Corps.

28 posted on 12/07/2023 9:07:17 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /Sarc tag really necessary? Pray for President Biden: Psalm 109:8)
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To: cymbeline
A few V22s might be able to offer a military advantage that makes it worth that much. Or that was true when the aircraft was put into service. Now, with all sorts of unmanned aircraft, it might no longer be true.

I can see where the V22 would be a more complex thing to keep stable, and more complex in general than a helicopter.

It might stun you to learn that the U.S. Army just chose the Bell V-280 Valor as the next generation replacement for the UH-60 Blackhawk.


29 posted on 12/07/2023 9:12:14 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /Sarc tag really necessary? Pray for President Biden: Psalm 109:8)
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To: Yo-Yo

THe ‘experts’ strike again


30 posted on 12/07/2023 9:12:19 AM PST by SMARTY ("A lie which is half a truth is ever the blackest of lies." Tennyson)
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To: Yo-Yo

Replacing the Greyhound gives you a much shorter legged plane that is far more dangerous and complex. The Greyhound has had 8 crashes since 1964. The Osprey has doubled that in a third of the time. God only knows how much worse it would be if they did it by flight hours.


31 posted on 12/07/2023 9:25:22 AM PST by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up.)
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To: CodeToad
V-22 incidents are not recoverable. When things go bad, you’re dead. As a pilot, this bird ain’t for me. Give me a bird that has a chance for corrective action and survivability.

The same can be said for any two rotor helicopter like the now retired CH-46 and the much larger CH-47. Both have synchronizing gearboxes for the two rotors and the twin engines. You lose that synchronization, you're done. No autorotation when the two rotor assemblies become uncoupled.

32 posted on 12/07/2023 9:29:44 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /Sarc tag really necessary? Pray for President Biden: Psalm 109:8)
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To: DesertRhino
Replacing the Greyhound gives you a much shorter legged plane that is far more dangerous and complex.

And a plane with less cargo capacity than the Greyhound.

But the Greyhound couldn't ferry the F135 engine without dismantling it into two sections.

https://www.aviationtoday.com/2018/04/18/f-35cs-cant-receive-spare-engines-carriers-without-v-22s/

For better or worse (I'm with you, it's worse) the Navy chose the CMV-22B largely because it could deliver the F135.

33 posted on 12/07/2023 9:45:04 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /Sarc tag really necessary? Pray for President Biden: Psalm 109:8)
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To: Yo-Yo
the Marine Corps’ MV-22 Osprey has a lower mishap rate per 100,000 flight hours than the Harrier, Super Hornet, F-35B, or CH-53E Super Stallion.

Shouldn't it be compared to other aircraft that do a similar job instead of supersonic fighter jets? ie) Chinooks and Stallions?

34 posted on 12/07/2023 9:54:33 AM PST by PGR88
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To: Yo-Yo

“It might stun you to learn that the U.S. Army just chose the Bell V-280 Valor”

I’m too ignorant of military aircraft to be stunned but wow, good one for Bell.

From Wikipedia on the V-280:

“In one major difference from the earlier V-22 Osprey tiltrotor, the V-280 engines remain in place while the rotors and drive shafts tilt. A driveshaft runs through the straight wing, allowing both prop rotors to be driven by a single engine in the event of engine loss.”

Wikipedia refers to “Bell V-280 Valor”, and it refers to the “Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey.”

Wikipedia says “A partnership between Bell Helicopter and Boeing Helicopters was awarded a development contract in 1983 for the V-22.”

Wikipedia says development of the V-280 started in 2013.


35 posted on 12/07/2023 9:57:16 AM PST by cymbeline
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To: BBQToadRibs2
I was suprised to see that the Army chose a tilt-rotor to replace the Black Hawk.

The Bell V-280 Valor Will Replace the Army's Legendary Black Hawk

36 posted on 12/07/2023 9:59:40 AM PST by Mr.Unique (My boss wants me to sign up for a 401K. No way I'm running that far! )
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To: freedomjusticeruleoflaw
Only because you can buy 20 Blackhawk helicopters for every V22.

Not quite. Blackhawks, depending on configuration, cost between $10 million and $25 million. Ospreys cost about $71 million. So it is between 3-ish and 7 Blackhawks to an Osprey.

They actually aren't a direct replacement for Blackhawks. They are more a transport unit. It is replacing different units in different services, like the Sea Knight CH-46 which entered active service in 1964, almost 60 years ago.

37 posted on 12/07/2023 10:14:00 AM PST by Crusher138 ("Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just")
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To: Yo-Yo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jub8dVQVGSk
Deep Intel on Why ALL Ospreys are Grounded
(Ward Carroll)


38 posted on 12/07/2023 10:26:47 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a Simple Manner for a Happy Life :o)
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