Viktor Orbán : ‘World War 3 Is Knocking on the Door – This Is a Very Dangerous Moment’

During an interview with Tucker Carlson this week, Orbán discussed his views on the Russia-Ukraine war and the West’s fatal mistake of misunderstanding and underestimating Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“It is not just a misunderstanding, it is a lie,” Orban begins, when asked about the fact that American media obsessively claim that ‘Ukraine is winning’ the war.

Summit.news reports: He suggests that the Biden administration misunderstands Russia, and attempting to remove Putin could lead to dangerous instability.

“To understand the Russians it’s a difficult thing, especially if you have an ocean between you and Russia.”

Orbán points out that Western political conversations often center on freedom, while Russian conversations focus on keeping the country together, and warns against the dangerous implications of the U.S. strategy, particularly for countries like Hungary that are geographically closer to the conflict.

“Don’t misunderstand the Russians. So they’re not going to get sick of Putin and throw him out, come on, it’s a joke.”

He criticizes Vice President Kamala Harris for suggesting that Ukraine could join NATO, saying it was an unrealistic proposal that escalated tensions.

Instead, the Hungarian PM urges a new security architecture that respects Ukraine’s sovereignty but doesn’t include NATO membership.

Seemingly for his unwillingness to simply acquiesce to every talking point provided by Washington, and instead to put his nation’s people first – and their energy and food needs – Orbán has been called a “fascist” numerous times by western media, a ‘puppet of Putin’ and ‘friend of Russia’..

I transcribed it.
Tucker Carlson interview of Hungarian Prime Minister, Victor Orban.
Twitter ^ | 8/29/23 | Tucker Carlson
https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1696643892253466712?s=46&t=oXM3QUNDayEotvdo1W-zQA

Ep. 20 Hungary shares a border with Ukraine. We traveled to Budapest to speak with the country’s prime minister, Viktor Orbán.

Tucker:
The Biden administration described you in the United States and the media as a fascist. Are you worried about being crushed by the United States?

Orban:
It’s dangerous when I say I’m not the favorite politicians of the liberals, unfortunately. But nobody’s perfect. You know, There are certain things which are more important than me than my ego, family, nation, God.

liberal.Originally meant freedom. but now in Europe, liberal means that you are enemy of the freedom. We are allied to United States and we are worse treated than to Russia.

Tucker:
If you respect democracy, don’t you let countries govern themselves? If you take a step back, the point of NATO is to provoke war with Russia.

Orban:
This is a bad strategy. We have to stop it. We cannot beat them. They will not Kill their leader, they will never give it up. They will invest more. It’s a joke. It’s a very dangerous moment Now.

Tucker:
that’s obvious to you.

Orban:
Not just for me, everybody on the street. The Third World War knocking on our door.

Tucker:
You were just in an election. Did you consider at any point just indicting your challenger? Wouldn’t it have been easier?

Orban:
to do what’s going on now in your country, you know? To use the justice system against the political opponents, in Hungary, I think it it’s impossible to imagine. That was done by the communists.

Tucker:
As the war Ukraine completely reshuffles the world order and threatens to destroy human civilization. It striking just how little information Americans are receiving about what happens there.

The nation of Hungary shares a border with Ukraine. Its leader, Victor Orban, the nation’s longest serving Prime Minister, has been dealing with the Russians all of his life. He grew up under Russian occupation. As a young man, he was arrested and thrown into jail by Russian backed police for his efforts to liberate the country.

And as Prime Minister, he’s dealt regularly with Vladimir Putin. Whose nation supplies hungry with most of its energy, Victor Orban understands Russia and Ukraine. So two years after we last spoke we returned to Hungary to sit down with Prime Minister Viktor Orban and asked him what exactly is happening in Ukraine right now. Here’s what he said.

Tucker:
So in the United States, the view is that Ukraine is winning this war. It doesn’t sound like that’s true.

Orban:
It’s a lie. It’s not just a misunderstanding, It’s a lie. It’s impossible. Everybody who’s in politics and understand the logic, the figures, the data. No way.

Tucker:
Why is it impossible?

Orban:
Because that way the Ukrainian, the poor Ukrainians die every day. Yes, hundreds and thousands, you know from my heart is with them. So it’s it’s, it’s, it’s.It’s tragedy. It’s tragedy for Ukraine. But they will run out earlier from the soldiers, number of soldiers than the Russians.

What finally will count is boots on the ground. And the Russians are far stronger, far numerous, more numerous, than Ukrainians. There’s more of them, many more. So, so this strategy just supporting is a is a bad engineering of the strategy.

Tucker:
So if the Biden administration has said our goal is to beat Russia is to effect regime change, is to kill Putin and take him out of power.

Orban:
You know, they misunderstand the probably the Russians. you know to understand the Russians. It’s difficult thing especially if you have a an ocean between you and Russia. So, so when we speak about politics, but I mean Westerners, what is the focus point of our conversation? The focus point is freedom. How to provide more and more freedom to the people?

Tucker:
Yes,

Orban:
When you speak on politics in Russia, this is not the number one issue.The number one issue, how to keep together the country, because the country is very big and and and there’s a privilege of the question how to keep together the country and not freedom. Freedom is just another issue. Second, third, whatever. First, keep the country together and that’s generated a different kind of culture and understanding of politics. that’s creating What kind of military approach like they have always on security, safety, buffer zone, geopolitical approaches.

It’s not. It’s not our country. It’s a different approach. It’s legitimate to have that because it’s their history. But we have to understand that we cannot beat them as we do just now. It’s impossible. They will not kill their leader, they will never give it up. They will keep together the country and they will defend it. We finance more, they will invest more. if you if you send more technical equipments, they will produce more. So don’t misunderstand the Russians.

Tucker:
So they are not going to get sick of Putin and throw them out.

Orban:
Come on, it’s a joke.

Tucker:
What would happen if the West succeeded in killing Putin? What would happen to Russia and its nuclear stockpiles?

Orban:
OK, so it’s. That’s OK. May I recall one of my experience?

Tucker:
Yes.

Orban:
So I was Prime Minister exactly at the time when the change happened in Russia. Putin after Yeltsin?

Tucker:
Yes,

Orban:
Yeltsin was very weak and getting weaker and weaker. And I do remember the fear of that time. Here in Hungary, and in in Europe as well. Whether there will be a new leadership or not. So the real fear here was that there be an anarchy in Russia.

Tucker:
Yes,

Orban:
Putin is out and no new guy is coming in strong enough to keep together the country, the nuclear arsenal and the army control and so on. So everybody was happy when we realized that that after he had seen Putin come in and started to control the military and the and the Russian power as a leader. So everybody was happy. I do remember that.

So, now Putin is in power for long, long years. We forgot about how dangerous when there is no strong leadership or interregnum in Russia. It the interregnum is is the worst case possible. So.

Tucker:
But that is our goal. That is the goal of the US State Department.

Orban:
But it’s a mistake. If this is the goal, it’s a mistake.

Tucker:
It sounds very dangerous.

Orban:
How? It’s more than dangerous. You know, you know, you, OK. To sit in Washington, safe, United States is a different feeling than to sit here in Budapest. Ukraine is next door country, you know. So what’s going on there could have an immediate impact in 24 hours here in Hungary and so on.

When I was very young, 86 if I remember well, there was an explosion of the nuclear power station in Ukraine by accident, Yes. And it impacted us immediately. So if there is an escalation in Ukraine…

Tucker:
Chernobyl.

Orban:
Yes, that could have an impact on us immediately. So.Washington is far away. Russia and Ukraine is close. That’s the Hungarian approach.

Tucker:
So given the manpower imbalance between the Russian and Ukrainian armies and the attrition of the Ukrainian army, hundreds of thousands dead.

Orban:
Many Hungarians as well, nobody knows it, but we have a minority, a strong minority, more than 150,000 people in the territory of Ukraine, which was earlier part of Hungary. So it’s a historical minority living community living there. They are part of the Ukrainian state and they they are conscripted now to the army. And they die. They fight for Ukraine and Hungarians, that soldiers dying for Ukraine as Ukrainian citizens. So we lost, I mean, as the Hungarian nation. We are losing lives daily as also.

Tucker:
At a certain point, they’re going to need more men. They’re gonna need more soldiers. Where they gonna come from?

Orban:
That’s the most risky question. So if any Western country would send any boots on the ground, that would mean a direct war between the West and Russia. And we are in a third World War immediately. So it’s a ivery dangerous moment now.

Tucker:
That’s that’s obvious to you?

Orban:
Absolutely. not. Not. Not for me, everybody on the street. All the ordinary citizens are aware that we are living in a very dangerous moment. So the third World War could be knocking on our door. So we have to be very, very careful. And that’s my message always to America as well at NATO summit. Be careful with that.

Tucker:
And what kind of response do you get when you say that?

Orban:
You know they are bigger, therefore they are more clever. So that’s always the case.

Tucker:
So they don’t listen to you?

Orban:
We can say in that way also, yeah,

Tucker:
I have to ask you about Nord Stream. So it seems very obvious that the Biden administration blew up North Stream either directly or through proxies. I don’t think, I’ve never had anyone dispute that really. How is Western Europe, and Germany in particular, the biggest NATO member In Europe, Not saying anything about this. It seemed, I mean, that just crushed the German economy. Why don’t they say a word about it?

Orban:
So when it has happened? We commented it as a terrorist attack.

Tucker:
Yes.

Orban:
It was rejected in Germany and in the West. It was not a terrorist attack. It was something, you know, so that’s a kind of evidence of lack of sovereignty. but it’s the job of the Germans. I would not like to criticize them. What we Hungarians did immediately, we made clear that there is another pipeline, not just Nordic Stream, but there is a Southern Stream. Coming gas from Russia through the southern corridor. Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, and together with the Serbian Prime Minister, President, we did make it very clear that if anybody would like to do the same thing with the Southern corridor as it was done with Northern one, we consider it as a reason for war or terrorist attack and we will immediately react. So don’t, don’t do that. Probably you can do it.The Germans. But you can’t do that with this region. That was very much clear.

Tucker:
Do you think people understand that?

Orban:
I think so.

Tucker:
You were not speaking to the Russians when you said that.

Orban:
On that subject

Tucker:
Yes.

Orban:
it’s, it’s Hungarian issue. It’s not the Russian issue,

Tucker:
Right. But when you said to the world don’t commit an act of terror against this pipeline. You weren’t speaking…

Orban:
Was not addressed to Moscow. No, no, no, it was not.

Tucker:
Right. So if you were in charge of NATO, if you were, say, Joe Biden, what would your next move be in the war in Ukraine? What would you do?

Orban:
Peace, immediately. Call back Trump. That’s the only way out.

Tucker:
Call back Trump.

Orban:
Call back Trump. Because you know. You can criticize him for many reasons. I understand all the discussion. But you know, the best foreign policy of the present several decades belong to him. He did not initiate any new war.

Tucker:
Yes.

Orban:
He treated nicely the the North Koreans and Russia even the Chinese you know he delivered the policy which was the best one for Middle East Abraham Accord.

Tucker:
Yes

Orban:
So that was a very good foreign policy. He, you know he’s criticized that he’s not, you know he’s not educated enough to understand the world, but this is not the case. Facts count. And his foreign policy was the best form for the world in the last several decades I have seen. And if he would have been the president at the moment of the Russian invasion started, no, it would, It would be not possible to do that by the Russians.

So Trump is the man.Who can save the Western world and the probably the human beings in the, in the globe as well. That’s my personal conviction.

Tucker:
Can I ask you just to skip around for one second about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Days before that invasion at the Munich Security Conference, the Vice president, United States Kamala Harris, said to Zelensky at a press briefing. We would like Ukraine to join NATO. Now Ukraine joining NATO obviously cannot, you know.

Orban:
It’s a long story when, the idea of membership of Ukraine, NATO was raised. It was in the summit of of NATO Bucharest. 2007 or 8? Russia was not strong enough to stop it. So that was a real chance at that time to integrate the Ukrainians into NATO. But it was rejected. There was no agreement among the big Western countries to do so. So it was postponed it. But after two or three years later, the Russians became stronger and stronger and stronger. And now they are even stronger. So we missed the historical opportunity to do so, and this window of opportunity is not open anymore. So we can’t do that. So we can’t afford to have that long borderline between Russia and Ukraine, who belongs to NATO. That would mean immediate war danger to all of us. Even in Washington. So even it’s dangerous, even for United States. It’s not too dangerous for the region, but even for you, the for the family.

Tucker:
Because it could provoke…

Orban:
And you mean so you know. So it’s not a realistic proposal at this moment. So forget about it. We should say just the opposite. We should make a deal with the Russians on the new security architecture to provide security sovereignty for Ukraine, but not members.

Tucker:
So why? And that I think your view is shared by many sober people who watch this, So why would this vice president say something like that at a moment when there were Russian troops massed on the Ukrainian border.

Orban:
You know, it’s difficult to follow the the mindset of a big power like you are. So it’s a, it’s a different approach to everything than the approach of a of a 10 million people of Hungary with the historical experience knowing the Russians better than you know. You always think that you know better because of the Cold War, but it’s not. It’s not. It’s the case you should.

Tucker:
Never occupied Washington?

Orban:
Yeah, yeah, you should. You should ask us or how does it work? What is the way of thinking? What is the cultural context?

Tucker:
So back to the the piece if you were in charge or if Trump were to win in 2024. What? How would you approach that? What would it look like? The settlement?

Orban:
First you should admit probably publicly acknowledging that the keys in your hand. So if United States would like to have a peace, next morning there is a peace. Because it’s obvious that the Ukrainians, the poor Ukrainians on their own, they are not competitive in this war. So if there is no money and there is no equipment from the West, and especially from United States, the war is over.

Tucker:
Yes,

Orban:
The solution is in your hand. Is in the hand of the of your president. The president followed the future one, but you will solve it. United States can do it, nobody else. It’s not the solution for the Ukrainians. Of course it’s about Ukrainians. They cannot be neglected, they must be involved. But the real factor is not Ukraine. The real factor is intention of United States.

Tucker:
So policymakers in the United States have been talking recently about taking Crimea. Including the Russian port away from the Russians. Is that a realistic goal of what would happen if we tried?

Orban:
It’s totally unrealistic. But no way.

Tucker:
That’s not wise.

Orban:
Oh no, it’s not the wise. It’s not realistic. It’s out of, it’s out of question.

Tucker:
Last time we stood here and you had fireworks over the city to celebrate the founding of the city of this nation Saint Stephen’s Day. And you had about 10% of your entire population standing outside cheering. And they all seem to be happy to be Hungarian. How? How? How do you get a country that’s grateful to be Hungarian and identifies.

Orban:
You know it’s a, it’s an ancient nation first. The country was established 1100 years ago. So we are a historical nation. using the same language, no relatives, nobody speaks the same language around us, Germans and Slavic, no Hungarians. So therefore to maintain the language, to maintain the culture for this country is a big achievement by itself. So we celebrate it even yesterday that we did it for more than 1000 years that we are still Hungarians and to be Hungarians is is very we are very proud of it. We live donation. We love the country, so, and we are proud of it. It’s not very much mainstream thinking political thinking of today Western societies but in Hungary we are still very patriotic and Christian and committed to that values not in an ideological level, but on the streets every day.

Tucker:
Do you think that’s why you’re so unpopular among the leadership in the United States and the West?

Orban:
I’m. I’m not the favorite politicians of the liberals, unfortunately, but nobody’s perfect, you know?

Tucker:
But why do you think that is?The country seems to be thriving. That’s usually the measure we use.

Orban:
And it’s more, it’s more about our civilization, I mean the Western Christian civilization. Now the main division line is not according to ideologies, it’s a it’s it’s deeper, it has an anthropological character. So on the one side in Europe and probably in your country, but in Europe definitely there are groups of people who think that the most important thing of the world is that ego, themselves, me. This, this is the center of the world, the other camp of the people. The other part of the society thinks that it’s not true because there are certain things which are more important than me, than my ego, family, nation, God.

And because they are more important than me, I have to serve this higher level things. So this society has a majority here in Hungary. And the other society which is constantly only me, you know, only dealing with myself, it’s it’s more Westernized dominating factor of the political life and the governments of the West more belonging to the to the first group of the people. I belong to the second one, and Hungary belong to the second one. Our, our, our.Constitution is concentrating on the we, you know, how we are linked together, family, nation, God, what is common, you know, so we the Hungarian nation, that’s how we speak on that. It’s totally out of fashion now in the Western European societies.

Tucker:
But why would that be so provocative to certain people in the West? I mean, different countries have different traditions. Mongolia has its own religions, language, true, but that’s not offensive. But something about what you said is very offensive.

Orban:
Because in in the western societies politics very often led by intellectuals, and intellectuals like to to be ideologist. A special approach from the ideological point of view, and you know, ideology is a very difficult thing because it has an exclusivity. So when the liberal says that this is the interpretation of society. It means that this is the only way to interpret the society. If you do differently, you you cannot be a good man. So we have another interpretation. We have a Christian and national, more traditional interpretation of human being and society, but they can’t accept it because it’s different. So we are plural. They are hedonistic. That’s the problem.

Tucker:
So they’re the intolerance is baked in. It’s part of..

Orban:
It’s coming from the the ideology of the liberal ideology. Basically the, you know, liberal originally meant freedom, but now in Europe liberal means that you are enemy of the freedom. Because you are hegemonistic request on society on on the values and the concept of human being. So liberals are against freedom, that’s how we, how we see them.

Tucker:
I’ve noticed, I mean I don’t live in Hungary, I can’t assess it. I can assess your media landscape, which is much freer than ours, much freer, much more diversity.

Orban:
I have to fight every day in the United States.

Tucker:
Right. The people who run our country don’t, virtually every media outlet is on their side reflexively. And yet they describe you in the United States in the media as a fascist. And the Biden administration seems to believe, the State Department anyway. There is, you know, the US is the biggest, most powerful country in the world. Are you worried about being crushed by the United States?

Orban:
It’s dangerous, may I say, So we should not neglect the importance of that fact. When the United States administration does not like you, or consider you as an enemy or having a back track, it’s dangerous in international politics, you know. So you you are powerful, still number one power of the world. So if you criticize somebody, we have to be very cautious how to deal with that, and now the Democratic administration does it regularly. So we have to be clear here that this is not the Voice of America, is the voice of the administration of United States. Not all Americans has the same approach as the government, like the Republicans who are far closer on value basis to us. The previous president is friend of Hungary on the value basis historically and you know wholeheartedly. So it’s a real friend, so don’t make a mistake to consider United States equal to the United States administration.

Tucker:
Yes.

Orban:
And I think that that difference is important because you have competition or political system based on competition. And hopefully Trump will come back or Republicans will come back and the relationship will be again very good. But now it’s absurd. Can you imagine? Can you imagine that United States government deleted the agreement between Hungary and the United States on double taxation, but they still have the the agreement between Russia and the United States

Tucker:
And that means we have American citizens, for those who don’t know, this is American citizens who live and work in Hungary have to pay Hungarian taxes to your government but also full federal taxes to the United States.

Orban:
But, the attitude as such we’re a member of NATO, we are allies to United States and we are worse treated than the Russians. You know what? What’s that about?

Tucker:
What is it about? It’s what you just said. So what? It might be helpful to say it out loud. Now. The Biden administration spent U.S. tax dollars to campaign against you and your last election, they didn’t succeed. You won, you know, in a fair election.

Orban:
Big money, big money.

Tucker:
I don’t think most Americans understand that their tax dollars went to defeat you in Hungary.

Orban:
Yeah, exactly.

Tucker:
But that’s not. I mean, if you respect democracy, don’t you let countries govern themselves?

Orban:
It definitely against all the principles we confess.

Tucker:
Yes, yes. Are you worried about American control over Hungarian debt?

Orban:
Debt?

Tucker:
Yeah, debt. I mean, are you are you worried that that the Biden administration could potentially hurt Hungary economically?

Orban:
No, 10 years ago probably that could have been the case but today we are strong enough. No, no, it’s, you know, it’s not easy. It’s far easier to cooperate with the United States government. It’s far nicer horizon to have a good relation. But even without that we can stand and we can survive and we can we can we can grow even we can grow not just finance but we can grow.

Tucker:
So in the American media you have been dismissed as a puppet of Russia, friend of Putin’s. I wanna put on the screen a picture of you being arrested by Soviet backed police as a young man. This country was occupied by the Soviets, by the Russians for 40 years. So given that, are you a bootlicker of Putin? Are you a puppet of Putin? What’s your view of Putin?

Orban:
When I first time met him. Came back as Prime Minister, we said very clearly, don’t touch upon history. Because the history between Russia and Hungary is rather rather sad. One of the main heroic attempt of the Hungarian nation to get freedom was launched against the Habsburgs in the middle of the 19th century, crossed by the Russian the the, the Army of the Tsar of Russia. they helped the, the Austrians because we were on the the winning position, Yes. And the Russians were invited by the Habsburgs and they crushed the freedom fight here in Hungary. That’s first.

Then they occupied us in the Second World War and then when we tried to get rid of their yoke in 56, they crushed us again. So history is, you know if you ask anybody on the street that any Hungarian leader who is elected freely can be a puppet of of Putin or the Russians, they say it’s a joke, it’s impossible. Because we are sovereign country and even to the Russians we deliver many times that we are sovereign. So I don’t take seriously that kind of accusation, but of course I try to have a rational relationship with the Russians, especially on economy and energy. And my my, my personal point is that without involving the Russians into security architecture of Europe, we cannot provide a safe life to the citizens of Europe. But now everything is going against it, unfortunately.

Tucker:
Well, Russia is hardly integrated into the security architecture of Europe. All have NATO is against. I mean NATO was a war with Russia.

Orban:
You know what? What NATO does is rather strange. Because if you look at the official position of NATO as an institution, as an alliance. The exactly saying what we said. So no involvement? And we should be, do as much as we can for peace. That’s the official position of NATO. But at the same time, NATO says that member states of NATO should do their best to support the Ukrainians.You know, so that’s that’s we should, we should clarify that what’s going on like the United States foreign policy to support and finance the Ukrainians. It’s not the policy of NATO, it’s the policy of United States. That’s that’s a big difference.

Tucker:
But I mean NATO countries now border at over 1500 miles of Russia. So it seems like the point, if you take a step back, the point of NATO is to provoke war with Russia. I mean that’s what it seems like. What is the point of NATO?

Orban:
The point of NATO is that we are stronger than the Russians are. Now that’s very important to make clear, OK, there is the nuclear armament, yes, which must be balanced.Unconventional weapon, context. We NATO, are far stronger than the Russians are.The Russians are not strong even to beat the Ukrainians just now, you know, Yes. So therefore if somebody is belonging to NATO, member of NATO, it’s obvious that we are in a secure position. Russia is not able to threat our security. It’s out of question because we are so strong. That’s the number one point. The second is that.some leaders of NATO, some member state leaders like like your president, they had a strategy to crush the Russians somehow. And the strategy was that the Ukrainian soldiers will fight and some member states of NATO will finance this this fight by money and by military technical equipment. And this is the way how militarily we can beat the Russians. We Hungarians had very clear at the very first point this strategy will never work. So this is a bad strategy. And now we have 1 1/2 year of the war, and it’s obvious that this is a bad strategy. We have to stop it. We need a new strategy or we should run as soon as we can for peace.

Tucker:
So, I’ll just ask you one last question about Trump, since you brought him up a couple of times, you were just in an election that I know your staff was worried you might lose. There was an open question. You won pretty sizably. But it was a real election. Did you consider at any point just indicting your challenger on fake documents charges and trying to throw him in jail? Wouldn’t it have been easier?

Orban:
You mean against me?

Tucker:
Yeah.

Orban:
OK, we have some bad chapters of our history, but that kind of civilian war, called civilian war, was not part of our culture. So we can beat each other, we can argue against each other, but you know, to do what’s going on now in in some countries and in even in your country, you know, to to use the the justice system against the political opponents, in Hungary I think it it’s impossible to imagine, you know, that was done by the Communist. It’s a very communist methodology to do that. So in Hungary we are all aware that we are, OK, we disagree on many things. Ideology, values, vision on the future. Even practices of politics, but you know, we belong to the same nation. OK, we are rivaling, but what is the final sense of this argument and competition. To unite the nation, Yeah, to provide a better future. So you, you can’t say that I will kill you or I will send you to the prison. And you know if, you follow that track, no chance to unify the nation. If the nation is not unified, you can’t run for big purposes. So competition is OK, but it must be fair. Legally perfect, otherwise you can sacrifice your country and the future of your country for your personal success, which is not acceptable, at least not in Hungary.

Tucker
Prime Minister, thank you very much.

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