Posted on 01/17/2023 12:17:15 PM PST by Sam77
Ukraine must win the war against Russia in order to ensure that a message is sent to the world that there is nothing to gain from invading other nations, the Prime Minister of Finland said on Tuesday.
Speaking with journalist Fareed Zakaria at the World Economic Forum's annual meeting in Davos, Prime Minister Sanna Marin explained that while she doesn't know when the war will end, "we have to make sure than when it ends Ukrainians win."
(Excerpt) Read more at thepostmillennial.com ...
“We’ll see - Turkey’s been pretty solid on this...”
They are holding out for more horses (a reference to bargaining with Comanches back in the 1800s).
“...and thanks to the Neocon War in Ukraine...”
You have just lost your argument by tossing in your standard pejorative.
“...Turkey has moved CLOSER to Russia, since Sweden made their NATO move.”
NO, Turkey had close relations with Russia before Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 and before either Finland or Sweden sought entry into NATO.
Did you know that as early as 1984 Sweden designated the PKK as a terrorist group, and was the second country on the planet to designate it as such. The first country to do so?
Turkey.
Both Finland and Sweden have made all kinds of concessions to Turkey on the Kurdish issue. However, neither is caving into extraditing to Turkey ethnic Kurds who are citizens of Sweden or Finland, or who have been granted political asylum.
Turkey has always been a problematical NATO “partner.” Always. Hell, it regularly stirs up conflict with Greece, another NATO member.
Complete B.S.! There was no general ethnic cleansing. Rather, there was the attempt of Kyiv government to reestablish sovereignty over regions that had been military occupied by Russian surrogate forces. Nor did the two regions vote for independence. There were mock referenda under Russian military occupation. And even with that, the vote was for autonomy within a united Ukraine. And it was the Russian who balked, refusing to the conduct the agreed referenda because Kyiv insisted that it be done under Ukrainian auspices. The Russian excuses to justify their invasion is nothing but a pile of straw.
“Personally, I think NATO in its present form is obsolete. I think there ought to be as many as four overlapping alliances such as a Baltic nations alliance, an Eastern\Central Europe alliance, a Southern Europe\Mediterranean alliance and an Atlantic alliance. European nations could be in one or more of these alliances depending on how they perceive their interests or needs.”
It may devolve into that.
“I’d cut that deal.”
So would I.
Donetsk and Luhansk are Ukrainian sovereign territories; it is not Russian territory. Fighting broke out because the Russian puppets refused to implement the Minsk agreement by conducting a vote that would have lead to autonomy within a united Ukraine. But more to the point, there would not have been any need for the Minsk agreements if Russian had not earlier invaded these Ukrainian provinces.
They are both liars. Thing is, we are sending billions upon billions of US Taxpayer money to the Biggest liars on a per capita basis to prolong their illegal coup. They would prefer another Viet Nam, so they can all get rich off us.
No botard. They were attacked by the “defensive” alliance.
Bullcrap. When you throw a coup, you do not inherit sovereignty over the possessions of the national government you killed off.
Everybody in that old territory has the same right to grab what they can as well. And they can ask for help from people who share their geopolitical interests.
And the reason the Kiev junta sent the Svoboda and Right Sector militias out east? To get the surly street thugs who installed them out of town ASAP. You don’t need them hanging around starting to watch what YOU are doing.
Brownshirts, early Bolsheviks, Early Chinese communists... they always want to get rid of the street movement that installed them as soon as they can.
That’s just how it is, sport.
Oh, stop it with the “coup” allegations. Yanukovych fled the country amid nationwide popular protests for the betrayal of his campaign promises and his attempt to lock Ukraine in union with Russia. The parliament then declared that he had abandoned his office. Argue that his removal was unconstitutional if you must, but it was not a coup. His successor was elected in a national election. Nothing stopped the residents of Donbas from participating, other than the military occupation by Russian surrogates, that is.
If there were problems with Yanukovych’s removal, this should have been addressed by political means, not by Russian military occupation. To pretend that the military take-over of Donbas by pro-Russian militias was some sort of democratic action is a joke.
“By the time of the first ceasefire in September 2015, Russia had withdrawn all line units from Donetsk and Luhansk, leaving behind advisors, contractors, and some special forces.”
So you admit that Russia had combat troops in eastern Ukraine, and some remained after 2015 (advisors, contractors, and special forces; just what we had in Vietnam prior to 1965... and those troops participated in combat operations). At least you are acknowledging that, because there are pro-Russia FReepers who deny Russia had ANY combat troops in eastern Ukraine between 2014 and the 2022 invasion.
“In fact, all light engagements and heavy fighting in these areas from 2016 to 2021 were between the Ukraine army and the DPR and LPR militias.”
And Russian assets (such as “contractors” like the Wagner Group such as Wagner Group) were involved in some of those operations (though the Wagner Group during this period was also involved in operations in Syria and Africa; basically, wherever Putin needed them).
“As for the heavy equipment, neither the Ukrainians nor the DPR and LPR removed their heavy equipment from the agreed-upon 30 km demilitarized zone.”
That’s true. But neither did Russia.
“What the Russians weren’t counting on was Ukraine developing their own sense of independence.”
You do know Kiev was once the capitol of the land where now sits?
You do know Kiev was once the capitol of the land where Moscow now sits?
Yup that’s the one
Based on Ukraine-Crimea situation Finland is just a separatist Russian province and needs to be abolished.
Like Serbia/Yugoslavia...
They’ve been annexed to NATO also? Cool. Even fewer allies for Russia.
Okay, Finland.
W are u doing about it?
Stupid pig still living in 1939.....
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