Any Jews want to clear this up for us Prots?
Posted on 11/12/2022 7:44:47 AM PST by lowbridge
The famous Jewish actor and humorist Gad Elmaleh, beloved in France, announced his conversion to the Catholic faith, a process in which he says the Virgin Mary played a crucial role.
Elmaleh, 51, was the partner of Charlotte Casiraghi, the daughter of Princess Caroline of Monaco, with whom they have a son named Rafael.
His conversion to Catholicism is depicted in his new film, “Reste un peu,” (“Stay a while”).
The Jewish actor, who according to the Spanish newspaper El Mundo will take the name of Jean-Marie when he is baptized, has studied theology in Paris, and in 2019 he participated in a musical in London about St. Bernadette Soubirous, the visionary who saw Our Lady of Lourdes.
Elmaleh told the French newspaper Le Figaro that “the Virgin Mary is my most beautiful love” and expressed his surprise that in France the “vast majority of Catholics don’t live their faith openly.”
As a child, he recounted in the interview, he entered a church and saw an image of the Mother of God.
“It wasn’t a vision, just a simple statue, but I was petrified. I began to cry and hid for fear of being discovered by my family, for fear of curses and superstition. I kept it a secret for my entire childhood,” he recalled.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...
That is one of the oddest things I’ve ever seen suggested.
Who made that one up?
That kind of thing is what I’ve referred to as akin to the postmodernist word salad, or he Orthodox Jews’ pilpul; random association of names and themes taken as necessarily significant and hardened (like paint drying) into teaching and then into doctrine.
Since the OP was about Mary, thanks for acknowledging that she was among those in the Upper Room.
And since you bring it up...does your denomination teach that the gifts of the Holy Spirit (various mentions in 1 Corinthians 12) are still given today?
This is rich - coming from a Catholic.
Really?
Even I have missed that part.
Could you point it out?
The same church that included the following in the Book it assembled so long ago?
Seems like 'Mary' never gets mentioned much in it.
Colossians 1:13-20 (ESV)
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
That's OK, for the Muslim's have more about her in their holy book.
https://quran.com/maryam
Oh, it isn't odder than Catholiciism suggesting that Mary is a co-Redemtrix or co-mediator.
Here's a couple to put together from The Word: Faithful is He that calleth you, for He will also do it; Many are called but few are chosen; so if many are called, why are so few chosen?... Because so few will let Him do it.
Then Thomas licked his fingers and got a MUCH better blessing than merely drinking some wine of the eucharist.
In Post #355 MHGinTN wrote:
The Mother of Jesus was among the first to whom the Holy Spirit came on the Day of Pentecost, even before Peter began his sermon which produced the Holy Spirit work of conversion of the three thousand listeners.
And in your Post 359 you yourself wrote (and put in bold all by yourself): 14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
And in that same post, you yourself linked this to Pentecost in sentence:
1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.
It was Sunday here on the East Coast when I posted at 1:13 AM, smarty pants.
Of course you do; but why?
You usually don't respond to most of the facts I post about Catholicism's extra biblical dogma, and very few other Catholics acknowledge my presence in these threads.
But, sadly, someone has to do it.
If trolling bothers you, perhaps you should pass up responding to me, as it seems to trigger an auto-reflex posting instinct.
That's why I posted SCRIPTURE because I could not find it there.
Any Jews want to clear this up for us Prots?
Spanish (Sábadoz) and Portuguese : from a nickname or personal name bestowed on someone born on a Saturday, which was considered a good omen
(Late Latin sabbatum, Greeksabbaton, from Hebrew shabat ‘Sabbath’).
..."bothering someone" is the whole *purpose* of trolling.
You have no other purpose in your life.
I know you didn’t!
I started answering your response – which I very much appreciate the time and effort put into it – and realized about an hour later I’d gone off into my ol’ Aunt Betty’s blueberry pie recipe and how Dr. Hook never got their pictures on the cover of the Rolling Stone.
You don’t ever want to write that much to me, Grey. Ask anybody here who’s ever been in any sort of exchange of more than a couple of posts. I’ll write you a book if I have to respond to more than a couple of responses or answers. Had your post to me been any longer, I’m sure we’d both be near dead by the time my little, frail and bony finger – using my last raspy breath in my old, bony body – hit “send.” We’d have long forgotten the question. I’d be asking, “Question? You say you asked ME a question? Hey? Do you mind fetching me my teeth from that old Mason jar over thar? What’s the question, dearie? Wait. What’s A question? Are you sure these are my teeth?”
You and the whole of FReeland caught a break this time because my regular keyboard died. I had to fish out one of the cheap ones that gets figured into the new computer price somehow at around 165.00 even though you couldn’t pay someone to use the thing 165 dollars for 2 minutes. They might see if they could beat you to death with it in that length of time, but that’s all. And they’d be darned justified in trying, in my book. The keys are so low to the board itself that you don’t just simply push a key, you just kind of mash your fingers into the board and move them around until you’ve hit the right letter, amongst the many others. After that, it’s just a matter of using “backspace” and “delete” and all the arrow keys for forever and a day until you’ve sculpted a word. There’s nothing short of rage when you accidentally delete the wrong letter in a word.
I would pay good money for a keyboard that had keys like old typewriters. No joke. I don’t know who the complaining pansy was who said, “You know, these IBM keys are really hard on my finger muscles. My left index finger has been keeping me up nights. Somebody really should ...” See, some people just need a good throttlin’ from time to time to get their head shook back out and in right order again. Wouldn’t hurt to bump that kind of head up against a concrete wall … accidentally … while you’re doing the throttling. Kind of make it sound like the clunkety-clunk rhythm of one of those old IBM typewriters happily clacking right along.
So, Grey, I just wanted you to understand why my response to you will be so short by comparison. I didn’t want you thinking I haven’t appreciated your time and effort; I have and do.
I have a couple of paragraphs in response ready, but I have to whittle out the rest. (Whittle? Is that right? Is that the right word for carving a piece of wood? Oh, well. Too late now. It’s typed in and it looks right to me.)
I started yesterday on some responses to you. I quickly got frustrated so got very little done. That said and however, I’m going to copay and pasta some of my resonances to your reposes, just so you don’t thick I’m cheathing ya.
- - - - -
“And as one of the other trolls has loudly insisted, if it’s not written in Scripture, it’s speculation.
“And Scripture never records Mary as having sinned.
“So by his own standard, he loses.”
That particular troll would be our darling Elsie, my brother in Christ Jesus and my friend. He’s a nasty habit of posting truth over and over again until it burns someone enough that they finally pay attention to it and decide to accept or deny it, and thereby accept or deny the Word of God.
And Elsie is absolutely correct on this. It is in Scripture that Mary sinned. “For all have sinned ...” There’s only One sinless One. That is made plain over and over again throughout Scripture.
Here’s where I draw from, Grey, just so you know my position outright and upfront: I believe that Christ Jesus is worthy to have every single person saved FOR Him and for every person to be in His Kingdom in love and adoration for and of Him because He gave Himself for the whole world. He did what He didn’t have to do … for me, you, and everyone else.
Others have said it a gazillion times, I’ve said a million, I know: Faith in God is having a personal relationship with Him. It’s not about religion. If there’s no saving faith in Christ Jesus by knowing Him, then there’s no saving faith at all. All who believe in Him/call on His name, shall be saved. That doesn’t really allow for what we see in religion. It’s so short and sweet that it doesn’t allow for anything else at all. It’s all Him and … th’th’that’s all, folks! It’s about a Person and not an institution or rituals or man’s opinion or desires.
That’s where I am, Grey. That’s the position I come from in my heart at any other individual.
If I see something (religion) that may snag an innocent person who is truly seeking to be saved by Christ Jesus, I want to say, “Hey! You don’t want to do that! You’re going in the wrong direction away from God and not TO God!”
Just to have simple, childlike faith in Christ Jesus blows away religion and all its accouterments. Adding to the message that God gave to us that is so simple a child can understand it is wrong every day of the week all day long, in my book. I can’t stand it. I fell into a touch of it about a year after I was saved. I did not grow up in a church. (Did you?) I didn’t know enough then to know that all those things of religion were of man and not of God. I SHOULD have known better, but there I sat in a pew absorbing man’s way to God rather than sticking with the plan God had already just put in my heart and in His word. Oh, and yeah, I looked at Catholicism, also, back then. I have a lot of brothers and sisters on this site who are ex-Catholics who kept me from falling into that trap, too. I’m forever indebted to them.
It the end, religion did nothing but make me feel like God hated me and that I had to do things to please an angry God hoping He’d not condemn me to Hell forever. What had happened to all the love and joy and peace He had so graciously given me at the beginning of my walk with Him? Religion was running roughshod over it all and was ruining the beauty of it. Religion is so against the plain and simple message on faith that is full of God’s love, mercy, grace and, of course, salvation. And that is where I don’t want people going. Now that I’m a bit older in my faith in Christ Jesus, I see Religion Road as Satan’s counterfeit road to salvation. It’s just one of those things that once you see it, you can’t “unsee” it.
The stakes are way too high for me to use what I think is the right way to Christ Jesus in answering the questions of a person who may ask. I must stick with Scripture alone lest I lead them astray and away from an eternity of salvation. I don’t want that blood on my hands.
“Mary is not salvific as Jesus is, she didn’t die for our sins; but by His grace, I believe He allows His Mother to be a channel of God’s Grace and Power.(*)”
“If you wish to say “Gee it’s not Scriptural; I wanna stay where I know it’s safe” I won’t attack you; it’s not “You’re going to Hell, Prottie” but “Dang it, you’re missing out on many more conduits, delivery systems, for God’s grace and power, why throw away ANY help from God?” (*)”
This to me, Grey, is “Danger Ahead!” red light territory. Seriously. And I would ask you to think through your statement again.
The Holy Spirit IS the only Conduit or Delivery System for God Almighty, Grey. It’s stated sufficiently in Scripture. There are no other channels. Well, there are plenty of “spiritual” channels but they are not of God and don’t mean to do well for anyone, and that’s the real danger in that line of reasoning. God has given His Holy Spirit to believers. I beg you to beware of anyone who tells you there are other means, Grey. Protect that eternal spirit with all you’ve got in you, and be ever vigilant in what you say to others about God and His word. Please.
You state, “For Mary, I accept the teachings of the Catholic Church, that she was miraculously preserved from sin, by God, to be the mother of Jesus.”
That is blasphemy by the RCC. Just outright, in your face, blasphemy. It’s sickening is what it is. Honestly, Grey. I’m not saying that you are sickening, I’m saying that what the RCC has done is absolutely sickening, deceitful, shameful, dishonest and disgraceful. God’s word is absolutely clear on this matter: Jesus is the ONLY sinless One. It is fundamental. It’s basic. There’s no argument about it. They are calling God a liar when they say Mary ALSO was sinless. It’s either they are lying or God is lying. Whom do you believe, Grey?
I understand that you don’t want to come right out with it and call God a liar, but you’re doing it nonetheless, just in a round about way when you state what I quoted of your remarks.
Either God is telling the truth or the RCC is telling the truth. You must know that if there were another sinless human being, Jesus suffered all He did, pure Hell, for nothing. For, if God “miraculously preserved [Mary] from sin,” then He could have just done that for all and spared the hell from His Unique, One & Only Begotten Son. You’re saying He’s not the only sinless one and God could’ve gone another route. That also makes a mockery of Jesus’ suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane.
You see how it’s played, don’t you? If Mary is sinless then Mary didn’t die. If Mary didn’t die because she had no sin, she was received into heaven without death because sin was not in her. Circular, I know. Well, since only Christ Jesus, God in flesh, is sinless, then there’s no argument with Scripture. But, when we all of sudden find out something that God apparently neglected to tell us, and which would be of utmost importance to us, and that is that there’s another sinless one after all, and that is Mary, Queen of Heaven who is also Co-Redemptrix according to the RCC, along with a long list of other titles which are just as blasphemous and come about out of thin air, we have a problem. Someone is not telling the truth.
Does it not make you wonder who is really behind it all, Grey? Seriously? Since it’s man-made doctrine on Mary and that doctrine causes millions around the world to worship Mary, which steals the worship due God alone, who can we imagine to be the ultimate one behind such a thing?
Satan, of course, is my answer. It’s him getting people only 1 degree off course to get them away from God’s only Savior to the world, Christ Jesus.
Only Jesus. Only Him. He was and is the Only Sinless One. There is not another. Adam and Eve were sinners and everyone who came after are all sinners, except the One promised in Genesis 3:15 (which verse Catholicism has “tweaked,” and we should give special attention to that fact in consideration of the immediate 2 paragraphs above):
KJV Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
DRB Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall cursh (sic) thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
But let’s go back to the original of this verse and see how it was faithfully preserved in Hebrew by the Jews to read.
Translation taken from, https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/3-15.htm
“And enmity I will put between you and the woman and between your seed and her Seed He shall bruise your head you shall bruise His heel”
Do you agree with the DRB changing the text to making the woman the savior in the passage?
Thankfully, the Jews were faithful to their commission from God Almighty to preserve His word so that we can have the ability to know the truth and the truth can set us free.
“All of the sudden her not being subject to death seems...yeah, inevitable.”
Why? Jesus died. He physically and really died on the cross. He was able to lay down His life and pick it up again because He’s God in the flesh.
God did not prepare Mary’s body for that. He had Jesus’ body be birthed from her. That is a great thing, certainly, and makes Mary very special in that regard, but it doesn’t make her God.
“But as far as an honorific, I think it corresponds to Queen Mother (mother of the King), as Elizabeth, mother of John the Baptist said, when Mary visited her: “Who am I that the Mother of My Lord should come to me?” (And yes, you guessed it, “Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.” You can find some historical foreshadowing / parallel in the Old Testament, during a palace intrigue following the death of King David, when one of Solomon’s brothers asks Bathsheba, mother of Solomon, to ask Solomon for a favor — that is, to grant him Abishag the Shunammite, who used to sleep with (not have sex with) King David in his old age to keep David warm, as his wife. Bathsheba goes to King Solomon and says she has a favor to ask: and Solomon says, “’What is it Mother, I shall not refuse you.’”
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Loving the Mother of Christ is creepy? There are many creepy things in this world and this is not one of them.
You have a pathological problem with anyone who does not adhere to your beliefs. Truly sad.
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