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Reasons for the Retreat Near Kherson (Russian Source)
Rybar ^ | 10/4/2022 | Roman Saponkov

Posted on 10/04/2022 6:53:43 AM PDT by marcusmaximus

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To: ScottinVA

*formidable


21 posted on 10/04/2022 7:15:06 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Slava Ukraini!)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Well, it means Ukrainian forces are "secretly" under NATO command and control - which Russia should have anticipated once the war dragged on.

It doesn't mean that at all. And it would be wildly impractical anyway. It is basic us and Western military doctrine to push decision making down to the lowest levels. This source is talking about having centralized collection and redistribution of information/data, not centralization of small-unit decision-making.

The decisions have to be made by on-scene Ukrainian commanders at the battalion level and below. Trying to make decisions above that level destroys the very decision-making flexibility that has enabled the Ukrainians to be so successful.

The West has given the Ukrainians the tools to be far more effective, but it is the Ukrainians themselves who are actually employing those tools.

22 posted on 10/04/2022 7:18:48 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: 17th Miss Regt

A Ukrainian soldier commented yesterday that his battalion is reorganizing along NATO standards. He said he’s taking some R&R then training for a month in his new position. The Ukrainian regular army isn’t NATO spec but it would not surprise me if some smaller special forces units are getting pretty close.


23 posted on 10/04/2022 7:20:10 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: 17th Miss Regt

That’s possible too. The training the Uke’s received in terms of tactical philosophy and decision-making could explain why it may look like it is network -centric in comparison to the rigid and inflexible Russian system.


24 posted on 10/04/2022 7:21:55 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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To: marcusmaximus

(Russian Source) - so we need a propaganda translation:

“losses are small” - losses were catastrophic
“The men fought like lions” - the new recruits tossed down their weapons and ran for their lives
“fortune was not in their favor” - The stupid Chechnyans who were supposed to shoot the ones retreating didn’t do their jobs


25 posted on 10/04/2022 7:22:04 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: marcusmaximus

“ If this is true, it means the enemy has an American network-centric battle management system, where all units on the battlefield are net-linked and marked on computers, even at company level, let alone at battalion-regiment level.”

Count on it.


26 posted on 10/04/2022 7:23:21 AM PDT by jdsteel (PA voters: it’s Oz or Fetterman. Deal with it and vote accordingly.)
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

The West has given the Ukrainians the tools to be far more effective, but it is the Ukrainians themselves who are actually employing those tools.


Agree. Look at all the gear we left in Afghanistan and how little good it did. Putin couldn’t help himself and promised to wipe Ukraine off the map. That motivated some very brave Ukrainians to stand their ground. No he looks a fool and hundreds of thousands are dead.


27 posted on 10/04/2022 7:25:00 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
The Great Reset crowd that wants to exterminate 90% of the global population is winning! Yay!

So then Putin is the savior against the Liberal World Order we anti resetters need in the US, Ukraine and elsewhere? Maybe Putin can invade the US too, right?

Nah.

It's up to the people here in the US, Ukraine and elsewhere to retain their freedom against the LWO.

28 posted on 10/04/2022 7:25:58 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“ The Great Reset crowd that wants to exterminate 90% of the global population is winning!”

An unsupportable opinion.

The Ukrainian people, against all odds, are defending themselves. The Ukrainian people don’t want to be ruled by Putin OR Soros. They want their own nation or they would not be fighting as they are.

You can offer zero proof that the citizens of Ukrainian are for “The Great Reset”.


29 posted on 10/04/2022 7:29:20 AM PDT by jdsteel (PA voters: it’s Oz or Fetterman. Deal with it and vote accordingly.)
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To: hinckley buzzard
If they are decisively defeated in the field, what will Russia do next?

Best case: depose Putin and negotiate a settlement. Worst case: use tactical nukes against Ukraine, depose Putin sometime later amid world-wide condemnation and negotiate a settlement.

Just my guess, though - who knows? The way this has turned out should curb Russian adventurism for decades to come, and that's a good thing. It could also be teaching China a very worthwhile lesson that taking Taiwan by force may be a lot easier said than done.
30 posted on 10/04/2022 7:29:37 AM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: FreeReign

You are also on the side of the Nazis who have done everything they can to exterminate the Russian speaking population of Ukraine.


31 posted on 10/04/2022 7:29:54 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ( We need to “build back better” on the bones and ashes of those forcing us to “Build Back Better.")
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

I would also expect that a modified form of a western battle management system is being adapted as quickly as possible for the Ukes.


32 posted on 10/04/2022 7:30:18 AM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: jdsteel
The Ukrainian people, against all odds, are defending themselves.

What a transparently despicable lie.

This is the US hiding behind NATO pretending Ukraine is fighting.

33 posted on 10/04/2022 7:31:06 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ( We need to “build back better” on the bones and ashes of those forcing us to “Build Back Better.")
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

“ The West has given the Ukrainians the tools to be far more effective, but it is the Ukrainians themselves who are actually employing those tools.”

Bingo; and Russian command and control is top down to the extreme.


34 posted on 10/04/2022 7:31:40 AM PDT by jdsteel (PA voters: it’s Oz or Fetterman. Deal with it and vote accordingly.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Well, it means Ukrainian forces are "secretly" under NATO command and control - which Russia should have anticipated once the war dragged on.

Not really, unless you think NATO still has a bunch of Russian and Ukrainian speakers.

It means the Ukrainians have been equipped with better comms (and have developed some of their own) and been trained much better than they were.

There's increasing evidence that the Ukrainians are now using effective combined arms (artillery & armor) attacks at least on the BTG level.

Ukraine was also able to cancel the autumn conscription because they have enough volunteers.

35 posted on 10/04/2022 7:34:58 AM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: hinckley buzzard
If they are decisively defeated in the field, what will Russia do next?

Based on history, overthrow their government.

36 posted on 10/04/2022 7:35:47 AM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

Ukraine has taken out A LOT of Russia’s armor. Also, recall how much was abandoned and broken down on the side of the road for minor reasons like flat tires, dead batteries, faulty spark plugs, etc.

Russian corruption is just as much responsible for this debacle as Ukrainian tactics are.


37 posted on 10/04/2022 7:41:08 AM PDT by Vaden (Real conservatives will not allow our wagon to be hitched to fascist Russia)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“...the Nazis who have done everything they can to exterminate the Russian speaking population of Ukraine...”

Tell that to my family and friends in the Donbas who are Russian speakers and patriotic Ukrainians. You bought into Russian propaganda.

One reason the Russians cannot maintain a munitions depot in the Donbas is because human intel gets the word out about the location and BOOM! Thousands of Russian speakers from the Donbas are part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The real Nazis are the Russian agents who created the fake “separatist” movement and murdered those who bravely opposed it. Now, the Hammer and Sickle flags are coming down and the Ukrainian flags are going back up as AFU advances.


38 posted on 10/04/2022 7:41:32 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (To the barricades !!!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
You are also on the side of the Nazis who have done everything they can to exterminate the Russian speaking population of Ukraine.

This is of course a lie. Th Russian speaking portion of the population was probably greater than 40% or 50% of the population, so "exterminating" it would have been impossible.

In 2014, Russian intelligence services and some Donbas oligarchs allied with Putin bribed, coerced and bamboozled part of the Russian speaking part of the population into separating from Ukraine.

After 8 years of gangster government in the east and experiencing the tender mercies of the Russian military, more and more Russian speakers identify as Ukrainian, for which you can thank Putin.

39 posted on 10/04/2022 7:42:37 AM PDT by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: Monterrosa-24

If you oppose fascist Russia you are a “nazi” and if you oppose Democrats you are a “white supramacist”? Putinist Russia uses the same gaslighting techniques Democrats do in an effort to dupe low info voters.


40 posted on 10/04/2022 7:45:27 AM PDT by lodi90
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