.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Posted on 08/31/2022 4:58:08 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
HEADQUARTERS FIELD OF BATTLE,
GROVETON NEAR GAINESVILLE, Aug. 30, 1862.
To Major-Gen. Hathel, General-in-Chief, Washington, D. C.:
We fought a terrific battle here yesterday with the combined forces of the enemy, which lasted with continuous fury from daylight until after dark, by which time the enemy was driven from the field, which we now occupy.
Our troops are too much exhausted to push matters, but I shall do so in the course of the morning, as soon as FITZ-JOHN PORTER's corps come up from Manassas.
The enemy is still in our front, but badly used up.
We have lost not less than eight thousand men killed and wounded, and from the appearance of the field, the enemy have lost at least two to our one. He stood strictly on the defensive, and every assault was made by ourselves.
Our troops have behaved splendidly.
The battle was fought on the identical battlefield of Bull Run, which greatly increased the enthusiasm of our men.
The news just reaches me from the front that the enemy is retreating toward the mountains. I go forward at once to see.
We have made great captures, but I am not able yet to form an idea of their extent.
JOHN POPE, Major-General Commanding.
DISPATCH FROM GEN. McDOWELL
WASHINGTON, Friday, August 30.
Secretary CHASE, received this afternoon, through Gen. POPE's messenger, the following note Hon. Gen. MCDOWELL, dated on battle field at 6:15, morning:
"DEAR GOVERNOR -- [???] telegraph Mrs. MCDOWELL that I have gone through a second battle of Bull Run, on the identical field of last year and unhurt. The victory is decidedly ours.
Very sincerely, IRVIN MCDOWELL."
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
First session: November 21, 2015. Last date to add: May 2025.
Reading: Self-assigned. Recommendations made and welcomed.
Posting history, in reverse order
https://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:homerjsimpson/index?tab=articles
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by reply or freepmail.
Link to previous New York Times thread
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4089417/posts
Highly Important: Defeat of the Rebels on the Old Bull Run Battle-Ground – 2-4
News from Fredericksburgh: Everything Quiet There – 5
Important from Washington: The Significance of the Second Battle of Bull Run – 5-6
Another Iron-Clad – 6
Editorial: The Second Battle of Bull Run – 6
The Want of Arms – 6-7
Editorial: Why We Should Draft – 7
Editorial: A Comparison of Resources – The Draft – 7-8
The Burning of the Golden Gate – 8
Just goes to show how inaccurate the media was throughout it’s history. Rebel’s defeated on old Bull Run Battlefield could not have been further from the truth. Pope’s Federal Army ended up devastated by Longstreet’s attack on the left flank and had to withdraw back towards Washington, losing two generals (Kearny & Stevens) the next day at the Battle of Chantilly. It was a disastrous week for the Federals and marked the end of Pope’s command of the Army of the Potomac.
The Federal defeats at 2nd Bull Run (2nd Manassas, Groveton & Brawners Farm) and Chantilly cleared the way for The Confederate invasion of Maryland which began immediately thereafter.
Our troops are too much exhausted to push matters, but I shall do so in the course of the morning, as soon as FITZ-JOHN PORTER's corps come up from Manassas.
The enemy is still in our front, but badly used up.
This is an episode that still puzzles me, as the cognitive dissonance on display is -- well, I suppose it's not unprecedented, as politicians, "journalists," and ideology driven zealots regularly operate in this counterfactual limbo. But it's still puzzling.
The three sentences above are perfect. In the first sentence, Pope reports that "the enemy was driven from the field, which we now occupy." In the third, he acknowledges that "The enemy is still in our front ...." Both cannot be true. As far as I know, Pope was sober when he wrote this. And he knew perfectly well that the Union troops on the 29th had not seized any portion of the confederate line, apart from a momentary melee late in the afternoon, which ended with the federals being thrown back.
Meanwhile Thoroughfare Gap had been forced after a stiff fight as Longstreet moved to the battlefield. Subordinate Union commanders on the Union left on the 29th knew perfectly well that there were a lot of confederates to their front; Longstreet had advanced to contact along the Warrenton Turnpike before pulling back for the night. Also on the 29th, Pope had expected Porter to attack Jackson's right, but Porter never arrived because the confederates in large force were blocking his approach up what is today Wellington Road.
My blank spot is how much of this information made its way to Pope, who had convinced himself that Jackson was retreating. The whole episode reeks of the later experience of XI Corps at Chancellorsville. Jackson's flank movement had been observed from Hazel Grove and a stiff skirmish had been fought around Catherine Furnace. Hooker wanted to believe that the confederates were retreating and interpreted these observations to fit his theory. A few hours later, federal scouts and pickets way out on the right along the Orange Turnpike kept reporting back up the chain of command that the woods to the west were filling up with rebels. Somehow there was a complete disconnect of operational intelligence with the wish fulfillment fantasies entertained at headquarters.
John Pope and Joe Hooker would have made excellent press secretaries for Joe Biden.
The invasion of Maryland will be so obvious that even the NY Times notices it.
Thanks for the commentary. I linked it to my Twitter NYT/Civil War post.
Hi.
Learn much on these threads.
“John Pope and Joe Hooker would have made excellent press secretaries for Joe Biden.”
Would obviously be a step up from KJP.
5.56mm
Kentucky 1861-'62 Engagements
| Date | Engagement | Military Units | Losses | Victor |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sep 19 | Barbourville, KY | Union KY Home Guard (Black ~300) & Confederate Dept 2 (Zollicoffer ~800) | Union 15-total (1-killed); Confederates 7-total (7-killed) | CSA |
| Oct 21 | Camp Wildcat, KY (near Cumberland Gap) | Union IN & KY Infantry, KY Cavalry (Schoepf ~7,000) & Confederate TN Infantry (Zollicoffer ~5,700) | Union 25-total (5-killed), Confederates 53-total (11-killed) | USA |
| Nov 8-9 | Big Sandy-ivy Mountain, KY | Union: Dept of Ohio (Nelson ~5.500) & Confederate 5th Kentucky (Williams, ~1,010) | Union 62-total (12-killed), Confederates 235-total (41-killed) | USA |
| Nov 20 | Skirmish at Brownsville, KY | Union Dept of Cumberland (~115) & Confederate Cavalry (Morgan ~200) | Union 14-total (6-killed), Confederates 1-total (1-killed) | CSA |
| Dec 17 | Rowlett's Station, KY | Union 32nd Indiana (Willich ~500) & Confederate 8th Texas Cavalry, 1sT Ark. (Terry ~1,350) | Union 46-total (13-killed), Confederates 91-total (33-killed, including Terry) | inconclusive (outnumbered Union forces held the field) |
| Dec 28 | Sacremento, KY | Union cavalry (Murray ~500) & Confederate Cavalry (Forrest ~250) | Union 23-total (10-killed), Confederates 5-total (2-killed) | CSA |
| Jan 10 | Middle Creek, KY | Union KY&OH Inf (Garfield 2,100) & Confederate KY Inf & VA Art+Cav (Marshall 2,500) | Union 27 total, Confederates ~65 total | USA |
| Jan 11 | Lucas Bend, Columbus, KY | Union gunboats Essex, St. Louis (Foote, Porter) & Confederate Gunboats Jackson, Ivy, Polk, N.O. (Holland, Rogers) | Union none, Confederates unknown | Inconclusive |
| Jan 19 | Mill Springs, KY | Union KY, IN, OH, Mn, TN Inf, Cav & ART (Thomas ~4,400) & Confederate MS, TN, KY, AL Inf, Cav & Arty (Crittenden, Zollicoffer ~5,900) | Union 246-total (39 killed), Confederates 529-total (125 killed incl Zollicoffer) | USA |
| Aug 22 | Big Hill, KY | Union Army of Ohio (Metcalfe), Confederate Cavalry, E. Tenn (Scott). | Union 270-total Confederates 16-total | CSA |
| Aug 30 | Richmond, KY | Union Army of KY, (Nelson ~6,850), Confederate Army of E TN (Smith, Cleburne -6,500) | Union ~5,353-total (206-killed), Confederates ~451-total (78-killed) | CSA (CSA outnumbered) |
Tennessee 1862 Engagements
| Date | Engagement | Military Units | Losses | Victor |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Feb 6 | Fort Henry, TN | Union Army of TN + West Flotilla (Grant, Foote ~15,000) & Confederate Army of Cent KY (Tilghman ~3,200) | Union 40-total, Confederates 79-total (15 killed) | USA |
| Feb 14-16 | Fort Donelson, TN | Union Army of the Tennessee + Mississippi River Squadron (Grant, Foote 24,531) & Confederate Army of Central KY + garrison (Floyd, Pillow, Buchner 16,171) | Union 2,691-total (507-killed), Confederates 13,846-total (327-killed) | USA |
| April 6-7 | Shiloh, TN | Union Army of West Tennessee (Grant, Buell ~63,000) & Confederate Army of Mississippi (AS Johnson, Beauregard ~40,335) | Union 13,047-total (1,754-killed), Confederate 10,699-total (1,728-killed) | USA |
| April 14 | Fort Pillowi, TN | Union mortor boats bombard Fort Pillow | none | CSA |
| May 10 | Plum Run Bend, TN | Union MS River Squadron (7-river ironclads), Confederate River Defense Fleet (9-wooden steamboats) | none recorded | CSA |
| June 6 | Memphis, TN | Union MS Flotilla (Davis, Ellet+), Confederate River Defense Fleet (Montgomery, Thompson) | Union 1- total, Confederates 250-total (~35-killed) | USA |
| June 7-8 | Chattanooga, TN | Union Army of OH (Negley 1 division), Confederate Army of KY (EK Smith) | Union 23-total, Confederates 65-total | USA |
| July 13 | Murfreesboro, TN | Union hospital & PA cavalry (Crittended ~900, Confederate Cavalry (Forrest ~1,400) | Union 890-total (0-killed), Confederates ~150-total (0-killed) | CSA |
| Aug 30 | Bolivar, TN | Union Army of the MS, (Leggett ~1,000), Confederate Army of the West (Armstrong -1,000) | Union unknown, Confederates unknown | Inconclusive |
These bring the totals to 140 engagements of which each side won 60 plus 20 inconclusive.
Summary of Civil War Engagements as of August 30, 1862:
Engagements in Confederate states:
| State | Union Victories | Confederate Victories | Inconclusive | Total Engagements |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| South Carolina | 2 | 2 | 1 | 5 |
| Virginia | 7 | 23 | 11 | 41 |
| North Carolina | 5 | 1 | 0 | 6 |
| Florida | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| Louisiana | 3 | 1 | 0 | 4 |
| Tennessee | 5 | 3 | 1 | 9 |
| Arkansas | 4 | 0 | 1 | 5 |
| Georgia | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| Mississippi | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| Total Engagements in CSA | 29 | 30 | 14 | 73 |
Engagements in Union states/territories:
| State | Union Victories | Confederate Victories | Inconclusive | Total Engagements |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Maryland | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 |
| West Virginia | 9 | 3 | 2 | 14 |
| Missouri | 12 | 12 | 1 | 24 |
| New Mexico | 5 | 8 | 0 | 13 |
| Kentucky | 4 | 5 | 2 | 11 |
| Oklahoma | 0 | 3 | 0 | 3 |
| Total Engagements in Union | 31 | 30 | 6 | 67 |
| Total Engagements to date | 60 | 60 | 20 | 140 |
These bring total casualties to nearly 175,000 including almost 22,000 killed in action.
Hi.
Learn much on these threads.
“John Pope and Joe Hooker would have made excellent press secretaries for Joe Biden.”
Would obviously be a step up from KJP.
5.56mm
In a Biden style move, Fitz-John Porter was unjustly scapegoated, court-martialed, and cashiered from the army.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.