Posted on 04/09/2022 10:59:26 AM PDT by Wuli
In a discusssion the other day I had a Liberal throw out the term "Trumpism", and saying he saw "Trumpism" as the "biggest threat to democracy".
He immediately went on to add that he thought Trump was an "autocrat", and after I gave him the theoretical example of the issue and use of a President's executive order that had no foundation/application under existing law as an autocratic act, and how I think a number of Obama executive orders fit that case, the discussion descended into a loud back and forth during which never led to him saying what he meant by "Trumpism".
I have my own ideas of what he and other people on the Left think they mean by "Trumpism", but I am curious about what other Freeper's think the Left means by "Trumpism", as well as what we Freepers think they get wrong about Conservatives and Trump when they use that term.
“Conservative” is not an ideology. However, “liberal” has shown itself to be, albeit as an alleged misnomer for Marxism. The phrase “governed as an American” is open to reinterpretation; even Biden could claim to be governing thus.
I think it means something along the lines of saying or doing things that are so provocative to the other side that it sends them into a frenzy. In this approach there are actually many Trumpisms that Biden has been delivering to our side.
Trump rode the wave of discontent with globalism to the White House. He was the first one to speak out against all the groupthink of zombie laissez faire mixed with some sort of weird elitist messiah complex. There is no “going back to the way things used to be” because messianic globalism, or whatever all the insane America Last nonsense was, has always been an illusion. We need to deal with the world we have actually got. We are not the ones who decided that Trump was a personality cult, the Potomac-fever set are the ones who did that. We have always been about sensible policies. We are empiricists, not rationalists. We like what works, not the beauty of complex theories that have no real-world application.
Americas Founding Fathers were Classic Liberals. They favored Liberty,Capitalism, and Freedom of religion (Freedom from Religion) among other things.The were also Republican, Democrate, and Federalists.
Have a discussion like that is a waste of time.
You will never change each other’s minds because the words being used have too high a valence. You will just end up talking past each other. And both parties walk away thinking the other is an imbicile.
Trumpism is a threat to democracy...
Definitely...
For good reason...
This nation was founded as a Constitutional Republic by men who feared the inevitable tyranny that has always resulted, historically, from a political democracy...
They were so correct... We now live under a deep tyranny (mob-rule democracy) just as they had hoped to prevent...
Trumpism is our last best hope for defeating our communist rulers and restoring some semblance of freedom & liberty...
The first item on the chart/poll of Dim concerns - Trump voters, is something that to me reflects the intellectual dishonesty and hypcorisy about the Dim party and the Left, because their first concern is the voters that want to keep the Dims/Left out of power, making the Dims’ greatest concern is losing power,
yet here is a main part of their definition of “Trumpism”, that I had already read on Wiki, but only now sharing in the discussion:
“Trumpism is a term for the political ideologies, social emotions, style of governance,[9] political movement, and set of mechanisms for acquiring and keeping control of power associated with Donald Trump and his political base.”
They, the Dims don’t give a hoot about “democracy”, they are all about power and detest all opposition to their having power, period. And, anyone contesting that Dim/Left belief in themselves as divinely deserving power is labeled, by them, “authoritarian”.
I’ve heard the phrase “classical liberal” before and have to wonder if it’s retroactively applied to the Founding Fathers to make them seem to be something they are not. I can certainly agree that they were/are Americans, patriots and constitutionalists and perhaps also conservative insofar as they wished to conserve the moral laws they were brought up to honor, respect and preserve for future generations.
The phrase “freedom from religion” (used by Marxists) does not appear in the First Amendment any more than “freedom of religion” does.
They were also not democrats. One thing that Elbridge Gerry (later vilified in the perhaps-unjustly-applied term “gerrymander”) warned against was the “excess of democracy”. The left’s favoring of democracy above all else shows what it really is, if you look back at my post #8.
I think that the media has played up the conspiracy theories of the fringe to try to discredit the repudiation to the status quo that was the election of Trump. Your friend probably hears “Trump” and starts thinking of Q type things rather than negotiating favorable trade agreements (not NAFTA), getting Europe to budget for their own defense, and reshoring manufacturing.
What is your point? Do you not understand the point being made?
The point is, Leftists are not living in reality. They are worried about Trump voters, systemic racism, white nationalists, etc. while the concerns of conservatives actually are real world issues such as illegal immigration and high taxes.
The concerns of the Leftists are not real world concerns. (If you believe they are, perhaps you shouldn’t be posting here.)
Did you misunderstand my post with tone of your response? Did you read my post?
Please explain what you are trying to say, because I don’t follow you.
Absolutely they don’t give a hoot about democracy. They want to use the force of the government to shut down people they disagree with, so, ipso facto, they don’t give a hoot about democracy.
You are spot on there.
“Have a discussion like that is a waste of time.”
The discussion was rather amicable for some many minutes, crossing a number of subjects, until the other guy threw out the line of how “Trumpism” was his big concern and how he sees Trump as an authoritarian.
The discussion then went south when he could not engage in a discussion of just what he meant by an “authoritarian” and would not address my example of an authoritarian use of Presidents’ executive orders with orders not founded in and covered by applicable federal laws. Then it reall went south when he referred to the Holocaust in Germany as an example of “white racism” and “white supremacy” (right out of the Left’s “Critical Race Theory”, and a position disputed by Jewish writers in and out of Israel). That was about the end of it before he and his very nice wife (she apologized to me) left.
Trumpism is the American way, the American Dream.
I’ve had pretty good luck discussing economic issues along with national security items like hardening our grid, reshoring critical manufacturing, things like that. Infrastructure is good too (nobody likes a road full of pot holes). I do my best to leave the identity politics and divisive stuff out and instead try to focus conversations on things we have in common. Imo, the divisive stuff getting so much attention in the media is a way to try to keep us all divided and far away from getting together on issues where we have common ground. I try to frustrate that agenda every chance I get ;)
Why don’t you try having civil discourse? What exactly is the point of your condescending and demeaning responses?
Are you bothered that I used “Liberal” as a term to describe a “Leftist” who simply hasn’t gone all the way down the road to being a full blown Leftist?
I know some people are irritated by it, and those people are often the same kind of people irritated that red is the color used to denote Republicans on election maps.
The truth is, Liberal does not mean “Classical Liberal” and has not for decades except to people who still use the term as a historic reference to a specific point in time. Liberal no longer means “Classical Liberal” any more than “Gay” means “Happy”.
It it simply that my use of the term liberal in that context bothered you? If so, why not just say so and make your point about that?
You're correct.
Humanity has always broken down between two groups of people: those who are always cognizant of the brevity of life and the judgement that follows immediately upon its end, and those who aren't.
The thinking process each of these two groups of people use is so unlike the other that there is no common ground for almost any real discussion about anything.
to me, it means America First.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.