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Would the F-35 actually be useful in a war? [more images at link]
Quora.com ^ | Abhirup Sengupta

Posted on 02/11/2022 6:22:32 AM PST by daniel1212

During the first Gulf War, Baghdad was one of the most heavily defended air space any Air Force had faced in recent history. More than 3,000 antiaircraft guns and over 60 SAM batteries protected the capital.

The F-117 was the first aircraft to begin targeting Iraqi radar stations, Command centres and other high value targets over Baghdad

Just 8 F-117s were responsible for the successful re-attack on Baghdad Nuclear Research Facility , where a previous strike comprising of 75* non-stealthy platforms failed (Package Q Strike ).

Package Q Strike was the first time non-stealthy platforms were sent into Baghdad and it resulted in the loss of 2 F-16s. The lessons from it made the leadership revert to the previous strategy of F-117-only for striking inside downtown Baghdad.

Throughout the air campaign it flew almost 1,300 combat sorties and 7,000 flight hours – all without a single loss. This was the first time the world saw the effectiveness of a LO aircraft. This is often underrated by the hype of a single F-117 loss in Kosovo which had more to do with incompetent leadership and negligence.

The F-117 almost exclusively relied on Stealth – having almost no Situational Awareness outside WVR (No RWR/stand-off attack capability; no way for the pilot to know if any ‘unaccounted’ enemy radar is tracking it)

Yet only 36 F-117 (deployed) comprising merely 2.5% of coalition aircraft played a crucial role in putting a hole in the Iraqi Air Defences – all without a single loss despite the threat level and limited capabilities. Thereby, allowing other non-stealthy platforms to quickly achieve Air Superiority.

Now imagine if you design an aircraft not only stealthier but gave it the Situational Awareness and Networking capabilities comparable to an AWACS; and integrating them to a level that would allow every platform in the area to form a single comprehensive picture of the battlefield.

And if such an aircraft comprises majority of your inventory, say ~2,400 as in case of USAF, USMC & USN.

Enemy Air Defences

The F-35’s design is optimised for penetrating the most heavily defended air space and operating inside them with impunity. It has lower RCS and far better Situational Awareness than any other Fighter. Enabling the F-35 pilot to see “gaps” in radar coverage that a LO aircraft like itself can exploit.

On top of it, the F-35 has one of the most advanced offensive EW capability. The power of the F-35’s EW/EA systems can be inferred from the fact that the Marine Corps "is going to replace its EA-6B [a dedicated jamming aircraft] with the baseline F-35B" with no additional pods or internal systems.

“I flew a mission the other day where our four-ship formation of F-35As destroyed five surface-to-air threats in a 15-minute period without being targeted once.”

“It’s pretty cool to come back from a mission where we flew right over threats knowing they could never see us.”

“With the stealth capability of the F-35A we can get close enough to put a bomb right on them. That would be impossible with a fourth-generation aircraft.”

“After almost every mission, we shake our heads and smile, saying 'We can't believe we just did that’. We flew right into the heart of the threat and were able to bring all of our jets back out with successful strikes. It's like we hit the 'I Believe' button again after every sortie.”

– Maj. James Schmidt, former A-10 pilot. ....

The F-35A had 20:1 kill ratio in Red Flag 17–1 against the F-15s and F-16s backed by advanced IADs.

Real world exercises have shown it time and again that the F-35 is second only to the F-22 and the gap is really smaller than what many think. The F-35 has a record of scoring 20–24:1 kill ratio in large scale training exercises like Red Flag, Topgun and Northern Edge against the F-15s, F-16s & F-18Es.

“I was conducting a strike mission and Red Air was coming at me. In a 4th Gen fighter you must do a whole lot of interpretation. You see things in azimuth, and you see things in elevation. In the F-35 you just see the God’s eye view of the whole world. It’s very much like you are watching the briefing in real time."

"I am coming in to perform the simulated weapons release, and Red Air is coming the other direction. I have enough situational awareness to assess whether Red Air is going to be a factor to me by the time I release the weapon. I can make the decision, I’m going to go to the target, I’m going to release this weapon. Simultaneously I pre-target the threat, and as soon as I release the A2G weapon, I can flip a switch with my thumb and shoot the Red Air."

"In the F-35 I know where the threats are, what they are and I can thread the needle. I can tell that the adversary is out in front of me and I can make a very, very smart decision about whether to continue or get out of there. All that, and I can very easily switch between mission sets."

– Col. Rich “BC” Rusnok, CO of Marine Fighter Attack Squadron VMFA-121.

Four of the most experienced USMC F-35B pilots speak about their aircraft. And they say it’s exceptional.

Former Israel Air Force chief Maj. Gen. (res.) Amir Eshel has called the F-35 “game changing”, saying that Israel gathered new intelligence during a single flight by the F-35 early 2017 that other reconnaissance and intelligence gathering systems would take ‘weeks’ to gather.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; History; Military/Veterans; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: aircraft; airforce; f35; iraq
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excerpt . Quora.com is a mixed bag but has some very informative posts

However, even if all the above is true, a nation that is at war against God as is increasingly manifest is heading to eventual defeat in any case, and in need of repentant faith in the risen Lord Jesus.

1 posted on 02/11/2022 6:22:32 AM PST by daniel1212
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To: daniel1212

China is also at war with God. If we fight them, whose side would God be on? God could be totally neutral I suppose.


2 posted on 02/11/2022 6:33:32 AM PST by lasereye
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To: daniel1212

The F-35 is referred to as a jack of all trades, master of none. Designed by the JSF, the idea was to reduce costs through economy of scale. The well-aged F-22 is a superior fighter, but can no longer be produced (Lockheed Martin manufacturing facilities retooled to produce the F-35).


3 posted on 02/11/2022 6:36:05 AM PST by throwthebumsout
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To: throwthebumsout

Apparently they do a great job of rolling off the end of a carrier....so there’s that.


4 posted on 02/11/2022 6:42:19 AM PST by V_TWIN (America...so great even the people that hate it refuse to leave)
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To: daniel1212

The mission of “our” military (well it’s “ours” because we pay for it) is to keep the world profitable for the merchants of death (”military industrial complex”). Well that and globalist colonial police force. OK also occasional relief work.


5 posted on 02/11/2022 6:44:32 AM PST by Salman (It's not a "slippery slope" if it was part of the program all along. )
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To: daniel1212

The man in the field want’s the strongest and most effective weapon for their immediate fight. The commanders, however, just want a weapon that’s reliable and is there for the fight. Tanks or planes the break down before the battle are of no value. Tanks or planes that take a long time and much logistics to repair are of no value. Only the materials that make it to the fight are of any value. The more complex the hardware the lower the reliability.

I had a boss who drove a Jaquar. He hated it. It was always in the shop. He lauded his 1960 Valiant. On questioning him about the repairs on the Jaquar, every electrical item had been rebuilt. The Valiant, on the other hand, had a heater and an AM radio. He loved the Valiant and hated the Jaquar.


6 posted on 02/11/2022 6:45:53 AM PST by Gen.Blather (Wait! I said that out loud. Sorry.)
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To: daniel1212

You cannot ignore the impact of Tomahawks in that first Gulf war. This was also the first time they were used in combat and neutralized every target assigned to them - without the risk of a single aircraft - thus greatly reducing the risk to all aircraft and pilots which followed. And without the new VLS (Vertical Launching System) on Navy ships this volume of Tomahawk launches would have been impossible (122 per cruiser).


7 posted on 02/11/2022 6:46:02 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: daniel1212
...a single F-117 loss in Kosovo which had more to do with incompetent leadership and negligence.

Yes, but the Biden Regime and the military, led by Gen Milley-Vanilli, has a surplus of incompetent "leadership".

8 posted on 02/11/2022 6:48:21 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction". It is dying on Our Watch!)
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To: V_TWIN

Forgot to engage the parking brake, I guess.


9 posted on 02/11/2022 6:51:33 AM PST by throwthebumsout
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To: Gen.Blather

Reliable and easily serviceable. They want to get these back out in the field as quickly as possible. Turnaround time is critical.


10 posted on 02/11/2022 6:55:54 AM PST by throwthebumsout
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To: throwthebumsout

Was in the aviation maintenance Quality field for quite a while as a civilian attached to the US Navy. A lot of times when events like that occur the scenario is referred to as a “Swiss cheese model”. IOW a lot of things happened that weren’t supposed to (or didn’t happen that were supposed to) to cause the event, not just the one thing.


11 posted on 02/11/2022 6:56:55 AM PST by V_TWIN (America...so great even the people that hate it refuse to leave)
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To: Gen.Blather
"I had a boss who drove a Jaquar. He hated it. It was always in the shop. He lauded his 1960 Valiant. On questioning him about the repairs on the Jaquar, every electrical item had been rebuilt. The Valiant, on the other hand, had a heater and an AM radio. He loved the Valiant and hated the Jaquar."

Yes, a neighbor has an old Jaquar that will take a lot to fix. I call it a lawn ornament.

12 posted on 02/11/2022 6:57:08 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: Salman

Was Kosovo warranted or wise? It is related to the current situation in Ukraine. On the other hand I do not subscribe to the school that thinks if America weakened its militarily relative to her enemies then they would follow suit.


13 posted on 02/11/2022 7:00:17 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212

Good against remotes is one thing.

Good against the living?

The F-35 seems to me like dating a stripper. Good looks, terrible followthrough.


14 posted on 02/11/2022 7:01:36 AM PST by Jim Noble (The nation cannot be saved until the GOP is destroyed)
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To: daniel1212

My Dad had an E-type 2+2 when I was in high school. V-12. Leaded gas only, 102 octane.

He had to have a mechanic on retainer. Sold it in 1974 for $3500.


15 posted on 02/11/2022 7:05:57 AM PST by Jim Noble (The nation cannot be saved until the GOP is destroyed)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

Well, the Serbs had agents near Aviano so they knew the takeoff time, airspeed and probable flight path, which undoubtedly helped in terms of positioning radar to defeat the F117’s stealth capability.


16 posted on 02/11/2022 7:06:28 AM PST by pierrem15 ("Massacrez-les, car le seigneur connait les siens" )
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To: lasereye
" China is also at war with God. If we fight them, whose side would God be on? God could be totally neutral I suppose. "

But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. (Romans 2:2)

In context this teaches that the judgment of God is according to the light and grace given, and thus Israel was the first object of God's correction and with the wicked being God's sword (Psalms 17:13) of chastisement, and judgment must begin at the house of God (1 Peter 4:17; cf. Ezekiel 9:6) so in principal then the USA - which has been given far more light and manifestations of God's grace and yet has turned from it all more than China has from the light it has, is more worthy of Divine chastisement in judgment. Yet accordingly, this must begin at the house of God, and some of what today is called persecution or Job-type testing is actually warranted judgment.

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:32)

17 posted on 02/11/2022 7:13:59 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: lasereye
China is also at war with God. If we fight them, whose side would God be on?

A disturbing question I've often asked. Not always in a match against China.

That I'm an agnostic doesn't make the Question go away, just more disturbing...

18 posted on 02/11/2022 7:15:29 AM PST by null and void (TV shows and ads, you think they call it ‘programming’ by accident?)
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To: lasereye

Every pilot or USAF person I’ve spoken to loves this airplane and says it is far ahead of anything else on the planet.


19 posted on 02/11/2022 7:17:28 AM PST by LS ("Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually" (Hendrix) )
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To: lasereye
whose side would God be on?

I am surprised I see this question so often. God doesnt choose to be on our side. We must choose to be on His.

20 posted on 02/11/2022 7:19:50 AM PST by Magnum44 (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic...)
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