Tesla Model 3 And Y HVAC Systems Under Investigation In Canada: The main concern right now is reduced visibility due to the EVs' inability to defog or defrost the windshield.

https://insideevs.com ^ | Jan 14, 2022 at 9:52am ET | By: Steven Loveday

[Red Badger]

As you may have heard, Tesla Model Y and Model 3 owners in Canada are having issues with their cars' heat pumps. This is a major problem that could be life-threatening, so it needs to be addressed and fixed as soon as possible.

That said, Transport Canada has put the cars under an “Issue Assessment Investigation.” The investigation is specifically related to Tesla's HVAC systems and potential problems with heating, ventilation, and air conditioning in frigid weather.

The government organization has not yet issued a recall. However, automakers must make Transport Canada aware of defects and potential safety concerns, and the information must be shared with all impacted owners.

Thus far, the organization has received at least 16 complaints from Model 3 and Y owners in Canada. As we previously reported, the complaints pertain to a lack of heat in extremely cold weather.

Transport Canada is working to figure out exactly what the issues are and whether or not they pose a real safety concern. However, at this point, according to a report by Teslarati, the organization's primary concern is the fact that the cars may not be able to appropriately clear the windshield for safe visibility. This is not only the ice or snow on the outside of the windshield, but also the "fog" that collects while driving, which can freeze and inhibit visibility.

We can only assume that Transport Canada also has concerns with the lack of heat, in general. However, Tesla owners can preheat their vehicles, make an effort to park them indoors, and use seat heaters for warmth. This isn't ideal, but it may assure that people remain relatively warm and safe while Tesla finalizes an over-the-air software update to correct the issue, which appears to have been caused by a previous firmware update.

Tesla's heat pump is a relatively new feature on the Model 3 and Model Y that's supposed to help in cold weather, especially related to range. However, if the software isn't working correctly in the coldest weather, it needs to be updated immediately.

Thankfully, Tesla is aware of the problem and working to fix it. In fact, Teslarati reported that a Tesla technician shared the following message on a Tesla Owner's Club forum:

“Tesla is taking this cold weather climate problem very seriously – they’re very worried about the safety of drivers and have definitely prioritized this issue.”

Hopefully, Tesla will be able to roll out the update ASAP. In the meantime, there's a chance a recall could happen. If you own a Model Y or Model 3 – and live in an area with cold weather – be sure to follow the necessary steps to remain safe and warm. You can find the most recent suggestions in the first article linked below. Moreover, if your windshield begins to fog up, pull off the road and clear it before continuing to drive.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

“Seems dangerous” — no kidding. There probably isn’t much difference in pressure on the two sides of the heat exchanger, so exhaust gases could easily flow to the air side. I’m surprised we didn’t hear about more people succumbing to CO in the VW cabins.

[fireman15]

Those heat exchangers always worked great as long as they had no holes in the heat hoses and the cables and levers were in good working order.

I spent a lot of time driving an old VW van in the winter. The “heating system” was the same as in the bug which had a lot less area inside. It worked but was undersized for the van when it was very cold out.

[NachOsten]

You see them testing all kinds of EVs here in Whitehorse, Yukon.
Was -50 C, -58 F last week.

[delchiante]

1.21 Gigawatts all the way back to the future, too..

[DennisR]

Would be an electrifying journey.

[Hodar]

All come with a 100 kWh battery. If you have the Long Range variant – which has an impressive range of 412 miles – it costs $15.29 for a full charge based on electricity prices of $0.13 per kWh and 85% charging efficiency.

https://bikehike.org/how-many-watts-in-a-tesla-battery/

Naturally that is assuming you are running a 750 kWatt heater Continuously and that the cab has zero insulation- which are pretty obviously false assumptions

You are underestimating how good modern lithium carbonate/perchlorate batteries are, how long they last, and how efficient they work - which is understandable. Most people have experience based on metal hydride, or Nickel Cadmium batteries.

The batteries in a 2020 and beyond Tesla should maintain 80% Charge capacity after a million miles worth of charging

[delchiante]

That’s for sure :)

[Mean Daddy]

Co-worker and her husband bought a Tesla a year or two ago. He won’t drive it in the Nebraska winter even as a commuter car because he has no place to plug it in at work (stealing electricity) and not trusting how much range it’ll have. They live 15 miles from work, you thin that would be plenty juice left.

[dynoman]

There would be plenty for a 30 mile round trip, in Nebraska. He should watch some youtube tesla cold weather videos.

[dynoman]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+cold+weather

Pretty impressive, and I’m a gear head.

[fireman15]

I’m surprised we didn’t hear about more people succumbing to CO in the VW cabins.

When we bought our Piper Cherokee, I thought that I could smell avgas in the cabin when we went on the test flight.

So when we came back to fly it away, I stuck a "dead stop" carbon monoxide in an empty spot in the instrument panel.

When we had taxied to the run up area I glanced at it and the detector portion had turned black. I tried to shut off the cabin heat, but the hinge was rusted in the open position. I was able to force it closed by getting under the plane.

Fortunately, I had seen the previous owner leaning the mixture when he took off on the test flight, because we almost didn't clear the power lines at the end of the runway. I leaned and instantly got an extra 150 rpm which caused the plane to climb out well. You normally do not lean on takeoff at full power because it can melt your exhaust valves.

The muffler not only had cracks in it, but some of the baffles had broken off and were partially plugging the exhaust port. The obstruction in the muffler was causing the engine to run rich because it was restricting the air flow, so it did not cause a problem with the exhaust valves.

The guy we bought the plane from was selling it because his wife got sick every time they went flying. We had to buy a new muffler the next day. I called him and told him that his wife might probably was not getting air sick; she was probably getting carbon monoxide poisoning. He just acted like I was trying to get him to pay for the $400 muffler.

The plane turned out well for us after a scary beginning.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

Wow, very scary story. I guess that there are enough cabin air leaks that the concentration of CO couldn’t rise to fatal levels, but enough to give you a headache. It’s amazing the seller’s wife complained about getting sick and he did nothing about it — just chalked it up to her not liking flying.

I didn’t realize the cabin heaters on small planes are like the VW heater — a counterflow gas/gas heat exchanger no doubt prone to corrosion and leakage.

[fireman15]

Wow, very scary story. I guess that there are enough cabin air leaks that the concentration of CO couldn't rise to fatal levels.

It is actually pretty high on the list of reasons why people crash airplanes. You get carbon monoxide limiting your blood's ability to absorb oxygen and then you fly to altitude in an unpressurized aircraft. It is a recipe for disaster. Just about every large aircraft supply business, flying advocacy group, and flying magazines, etc... practically give away the cheap dead stop style carbon monoxide detectors.

I didn't realize the cabin heaters on small planes are like the VW heater — a counterflow gas/gas heat exchanger no doubt prone to corrosion and leakage.

On a small aircraft they are typically just a sheet aluminum shroud that covers the muffler with an air inlet that gets fresh air from the nose of the aircraft and one outlet that goes to your cabin heat and another that goes to your defroster. You control these with valves have cables that go to levers or push/pull knobs on your control panel. ...

The VW system is likely less prone to failure. But the muffler on an aircraft is supposed to be carefully inspected at each annual inspection and often at designated time intervals. The Piper Cherokee we purchased had just received its annual inspection the week before. When I contacted the mechanic, he was very willing to assist me for no charge.

[dhs12345]

How about opening the door occasionally. With a battery powered system, the heat comes from the power/energy used to move the vehicle down the road. That means that you don’t go as far if you use the heater.

With a gasoline based vehicle, the heat is extra, a freebie. It costs nothing extra. Well, actually you try to get rid of it.

[Political Junkie Too]

Yes, it’s called FLORIDA...................

Having gotten my first drivers license in South Florida, I recall how people back then would remove the thermostats from their radiators. The salty ocean air would sometimes make the thermostats stick and cause the radiators to overheat.

People figured that they didn't need the heater in South Florida, so they simply removed the thermostat and let the hot water from the engine constantly flow through the radiator.

-PJ

[Hodar]

The heat is still a byproduct on electrical motors. But the primary means of heating the cab is by a Heat Pump.

That said, maintenance is practically zero on an EV. The motors are designed to last about a million miles, no oil changes, no filters, the only fluid you will add is windshield cleaner. Topping the batteries is about $20 and that’s good for ~300 miles. If you have solar roof, your house can charge your batteries. If you have a storm; your car can power your home.

Just a matter of time before you have your car drop you off at the airport, tell it to go home and go into the garage and then come and pick you up when you get back

[dhs12345]

True, but significantly less. And that is by design. The less wasted heat the better.

Important point here: in an electrical system that gets its power from a battery, by design, you want to eliminate the heat because heat represents inefficiencies in the system and maybe a reliability hit to the system. Inefficiencies in the system means wasted power and then you have to attach massive heavy heatsinks on the parts dissipating the power to reduce their operating temps. It is a known fact that operating temperature will inversely affect semiconductor reliability. Lower temperature means longer life.

Heavy heatsinks means more weight and then less distance traveled before the battery runs down. Also, remember that a vehicle has to operate in hot temperatures in addition cold temps and what is beneficial at low temperatures is not so at high temps. Gasoline/diesel vehicles have over a hundred years start on EVs and do pretty well. Are they inefficient? Heck no, but they don't have to be. Well, not on the scale of an EV.

Solar panels on the roof — good idea. It is a start but EVs are not quite there yet. Now if we could switch over to nuclear energy, then all electrical vehicles make more sense.

Also, how about this — Electrical version of a “Gas” station that charge and store precharged batteries packs. Simply replace your old pack with an new one in 5 minutes and you are on your way versus the hours plugged into the wall.
All of the heavy duty power conversion can be done at Battery “Gas” Station and with the safety issues managed accordingly. Heck, you could probably run the AC charging voltage at a much higher voltage ~1KV, 2KV, 10KV and speed up the charging process. Running that high of a voltage in your home would be a safety concern.

[dhs12345]

Also, I believe that heat pumps are notoriously heavy in comparison to other types. That is their big disadvantage and why they haven't made to vehicle engines.

[BTerclinger]