Posted on 12/03/2021 7:20:05 AM PST by DUMBGRUNT
I own a number of firearms. I COULD go on a shooting rampage or otherwise use them in a violent crime.
Do I REALLY need to go into where the logic falls apart?
This was a just ruling. You have good as part of 401K. It is treated as income. The couple was dumb. Pay up!
So they must be in a 75% ordinary income bracket if the tax in the headline, $300k, is correct.
I am of the opinion that there is a middle ground that could be enacted. Since the law is not 100% clear in this area, the couple should be allowed to correct / remedy the situation by either establishing an oversight (transfer to a third party holding) or by returning the gold to the account.
Yet the Clintons can take MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars from their ‘Foundation’ and live like Sultans.....................
Just thinkin’ out loud:
I suspect she set up a checkbook Ira and transferred an existing Ira to this new custodian.
(So not withdrawn)
The LLC was probably the only asset owned by the Ira, which in turn owned the gold & real estate - BOTH approved Ira investments.
Autos are not approved - nor collectibles.
If she acted in a legal capacity as the manager of the LLC, documented everything, kept all records required by law, reported the total value of the LLC as required annually to the Ira custodian, etc…
I believe this will be appealed. There is a whole industry and body of law governing what is allowable .
Guess we’ll see.
Traditional 401K...because you didnt pay tax on the money that went in.
Roth 401K withdrawals are tax free because you already paid the tax on the money that went in.
If you dont want to get into this trap, contribute only to Roths. If you are contributing to traditionals, stop and start contributing to Roths. If you have traditionals accumulated, talk to a good adviser about a plan that allows you to convert to Roth with the least tax implication. Over the long haul, the difference of taxes paid in retirement can be in the millions.
IRA gold bought and held in an IRA with IRA money is NOT a “distribution” of US currency to be called... INCOME!
This should NOT stand on appeal or anywhere else. They did NOT sell the GOLD and convert it to cash, which would THEN be required to be declared as income.
This is a Byzantine judge. Has to get sorted out from the FDR notion that one cannot hold or own physical gold. It just ain’t so.
and yeah- imaging 80K go for it punk IRS “agents” hovering like invasive wasps in a beehive. Time to warm them up to cook temperature... with LEGAL facts. This is NOT distributed income.
Like “Qualified Immunity” judges are just inventing laws out of thin air.
Gold Storage Dos
DO follow the law
If your purchases are for a self-directed IRA, your choices for storage are limited. The IRS rules forbid keeping gold and other precious metals at home that are part of your IRA. Just like standard monetary IRA deposits, your precious metals deposits have to be under controlled access for tracking purposes and taxing distributions. Independent non-bank storage companies have grown in number and popularity as gold, and other precious metals have grown in popularity. These companies work with precious metals brokers and IRA custodians to make shipment and storage of your investments secure and straightforward. Many of these companies have insurance available or included with storage plans.
https://www.retirementliving.com/the-dos-and-donts-of-gold-storage
—”Folks need to know the rules before withdrawing from an IRA.”
Totally impossible.
We were involved with a limited partnership, a visit with our accountant a CPA and he says how he just loves the forms for this one.
He whips out the form on three extended pages with a multitude of flow arrows...
I have done a few rounds with the IRS and it is always paying the accountant and or the IRS.
A few times the account said it is cheaper to pay than fight.
Wrong as usual.
They did not violate the rules as gold is not legal tender.
So sorry, did you miss that?
Yes, it is different.
Being able to sell something is different from having cash.
The big question is the gold was still there. It was not sold. The other question is, could the gold be sold without reporting it being sold, and without breaking any laws?
That appears to be the question the IRS Tax judge is ruling on.
Remember, Tax judges are not real judges. They are judges in the employ of the IRS. They are not independent judges. It is a direct break down of the checks and balances of the Constitutional system.
The courts have let it slide because they most judges have been parts of the Progressive political machine, which believes government should not have any limits on its power.
Nursing must pay better than I thought.
The issue at hand was that the gold was not held by a third party, it was in the physical control of the couple.
You cannot withdraw your 401K as a stack of $100 bills and stuff it in your mattress and still call it a 401K.
This judge feels that taking physical delivery of the gold and storing it in a home safe was the same thing.
The lady according to the article chose to sell the coins from the IRA for the market value, forced by the “laws” as the IRS decides them— to do so. And thus forced to pay a tax on would guess not only the distribution cash value but also on the increase.
Unless this was a Roth IRA. Researching the implications there vs. a Trad IRA holding physical gold where the money going in was not taxed but doubly taxed “coming out” so to speak.
interesting...
I will be following this one closely
The whole point of gold and silver at home is to not tell anyone about it. Sell itmoff coin by coin for cash and keep your mouth shut.
This is not 100 dollar bills which are legal currency.
This is gold. Which is NOT legal currency. By law.
So what this judge did is, out of pure thin air decided that gold is once again, legal currency.
Which means there is a guy from Hawaii that they are going to have to let out of jail.
The laws do not have to make sense but they do have to be consistent.
You are dead on. There is no value in government knowing what I have or don’t have.
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