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‘Rust’ shooting: Dummy rounds in Alec Baldwin’s gun would’ve looked real but felt different, expert says
Fox News ^ | November 6, 2021 | By Michael Ruiz , Lauryn Overhultz

Posted on 11/06/2021 8:25:19 PM PDT by conservative98

Blank ammunition has a distinctive look: a crimped or wadded tip instead of a bullet. But dummy rounds are supposed to be stand-ins for real bullets, inert but identical or nearly identical.

"You know, it's the most concerning thing to me when I'm on set because they are intentionally made to look identical to a live round," Bryan Carpenter, a longtime armorer whose recent work includes USA Network’s "Queen of the South," told Fox News Digital.

Depending on the manufacturing process, some have a hole in the casing. High-end dummies don’t, according to Carpenter.

Santa Fe deputies said they recovered a mix of blank rounds, dummies and real bullets from the set after the accidental shooting.

"You have to go through and just be ultra, mega careful with these things — because they look identical," Carpenter stressed.

He told Fox News Digital that the practical way to be sure a round is a dummy and not real is to shake it and listen for the distinct sound of B.B.s rattling inside.

"The only way to actually identify if a round is a dummy round or not is to physically have it in your hand and physically shake it," he said. "That's it. Period. I mean, there's literally no other way to do it."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: alecbaldwin; baldwin; dummy; gunsafety; rust
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To: conservative98

Desperate to cover for the piece of shiite, aren’t they?


41 posted on 11/06/2021 9:57:44 PM PDT by doorgunner69 ("Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.." -Joseph Stalin)
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To: BipolarBob

Well it has worked before, coincidently for someone named Hillary


42 posted on 11/06/2021 9:59:44 PM PDT by algore ( )
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To: Fido969
Dumb wanker wasn’t even filming.

. I don’t know how modern westerns compare to older TV stuff, technically, but I saw a lot of shooting on MeTV, today and don’t recall any flash. I’ll have to pay more attention.

43 posted on 11/06/2021 10:04:59 PM PDT by gundog (It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen. )
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To: Fido969
Thank you. I have never heard of dummy rounds being different from blanks. I suppose they have their use in the industry. It would be extremely dangerous to have both dummy rounds and live ammo on a set. That should never be permitted.

But the rules of gun safety still have to be observed. That damn fool should never have pointed the gun at a person regardless of what he thought was in it.

44 posted on 11/06/2021 10:06:19 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: TigersEye

I read it that they replace the powder with BBs (probably not actual BBs - they might be too large). Perhaps to give the dummy round some weight? But not sure why they would need weight. Unless when they are being shown emptied from the gun and falling to the ground or something.


45 posted on 11/06/2021 10:12:38 PM PDT by 21twelve (Ever Vigilant. Never Fearful.)
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To: doorgunner69

They are just stating the facts. Whoever the facts covers it covers. But this doesn’t take away from the fact that the Producer wasn’t supposed to be pointing the gun at anyone and was told not to.


46 posted on 11/06/2021 10:17:09 PM PDT by conservative98
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To: colorado tanker

I could see dummy rounds being used in a scene where someone is, say, loading a gun and you want the bullets to look realistic but not be fireable.


47 posted on 11/06/2021 10:22:16 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: TigersEye
I think I see the distinction this guy is trying to make now. “Dummies” are non-firing cartridges that are made to look real. They are not blanks in any sense. I don’t think he made that clear. “Dummies” would be inert, “blanks” would not. Perhaps “dummies” do have BBs in them for the purpose of making them identifiable.

Yes, this is correct, and you're also dead on about live rounds on a set. That's a recipe for disaster. Add in a careless and inexperienced armorer, a producer who ignores repeated firearm mishaps, an assistant director who was fired from a previous movie for a firearm mishap, and a general disregard for firearm safety.

48 posted on 11/06/2021 10:59:25 PM PDT by ETCM
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To: Telepathic Intruder

“Why would they need to look real if they’re never seen by the camera?”

Dummy rounds used elsewhere are coated in a black coloring. (Maybe lacquer?—I never asked anyone).


49 posted on 11/06/2021 11:05:01 PM PDT by Does so (DC: "The Chinese city on top of a hill".)
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To: TigersEye
And here's info from a guy who says he provided blank/dummy ammo for Rust:

Joe Swanson—whose company, Motion Picture Blanks, in Kingman, Ariz., has manufactured movie ammunition for about 35 years—says he supplied the “Rust” production with blanks as well as dummy rounds. Dummy rounds contain no explosive ingredients and are used as stand-ins for real bullets on camera.

While blanks typically have a crimped tip that distinguishes them from live ammunition, dummy rounds have a nearly identical look and heft of real bullets.

As a safety measure, Mr. Swanson says he inserts a pellet inside each dummy round so that it will rattle. “You can’t really tell the difference unless you shake it,” he says, adding that it’s typically the job of the on-set firearms safety coordinator and assistant director to do such safety checks.

There is a lot of conflicting information out there, and it's possible there was other dummy ammo used in addition to that described above, which would add another tent to the Rust circus.

50 posted on 11/06/2021 11:14:47 PM PDT by ETCM
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To: conservative98

“Also I’m sure she didn’t purchase the ammo for the set.”

That’s literally her job as the armorer. Just like she had to purchase the guns, complete with 4473 forms. She carries a ton of criminal responsibility here.
The guns are provided by companies in California that specialize in guns for movies.
Just as you cannot ship a gun to another person or company in another state, they cannot either. They ship to an FFL in the state where the movie will be made. The armorer as the agent for the legal entity in that state (the production company) goes to the gun store, does a multiple firearm 4473, and leaves with the guns.

The process goes in reverse when they are done.

Basically, this girl was operating as an underground FFL when she let other people go leave with them. And yes, it’s her job to purchase that ammo.


51 posted on 11/06/2021 11:21:58 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up....)
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To: TigersEye

No, they make blanks and dummies. Blanks don’t look like live rounds. Dummies do. but instead of gunpowder under the slug, there are some BBs. Those rattle around between the dead primer and the bullet so you can shake a dummy and it rattles like a child’s toy.


52 posted on 11/06/2021 11:25:58 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up....)
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To: DesertRhino

From another article:

He asked attorney for Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, Jason Bowles, “Why were there live rounds on the set in the first place?”

Bowles replied, “That’s the biggest question in the whole case.”

He explained, “There’s no purpose for a live round on this set, zero…There was no reason for there to be live rounds. She didn’t have live rounds. She didn’t purchase any of this ammunition. This ammunition was purchased by other people, production.”

https://ijr.com/attorney-armorer-alec-baldwin-movie-sabotage-set/

She didn’t purchase any of it.


53 posted on 11/06/2021 11:38:13 PM PDT by conservative98
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To: conservative98

OHHHH, she was asked. Well that clears it up. LOL

I don’t know how to break this to you, but people in her position making statements to the press a couple of days after the event are not trustworthy.

See also “CYA”.


54 posted on 11/06/2021 11:57:41 PM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up....)
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To: conservative98
Eric Davis, president of Gun Owners of Vermont, penned a scathing op-ed that ran in the Vermont Daily Chronicle on Wednesday — hours before photos emerged of Baldwin hiding out in the Green Mountain State.

Baldwin *“broke every single rule of basic firearm safety that exists.”*

55 posted on 11/07/2021 12:03:38 AM PDT by Daffynition (*Mega Dittoes and Mega Prayers* & :))
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To: conservative98

bookmark


56 posted on 11/07/2021 1:54:40 AM PST by GOP Poet (Super cool you can change your tag line EVERYTIME you post!! :D. (Small things make me happy))
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To: DesertRhino; Daffynition

You said I was wrong and she purchased the ammo. This quote disputes from the attorney that: “She didn’t purchase any of this ammunition. This ammunition was purchased by other people, production.”

This girl wasn’t even supposed to be the armorer to begin with. The original armorer walked away from the job because he said production wanted him doing more than one job and the armorer said it would not be safe. Alec told the crew they go “F themselves, production doesn’t care.”

And who knows - someone from production could have bought the wrong ammo? Or someone from production could have been firing the weapon for target practice and slipped the wrong ammo into the mix. That’s the point. Maybe even Alec himself? You cannot just pin this on the girl.

And as Daffy said Aleck broke not jut one but every single gun safety rule in existence. So LOL all you want that doesn’t make the case.


57 posted on 11/07/2021 2:11:53 AM PST by conservative98
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To: DesertRhino
"I don’t know how to break this to you, but people in her position making statements to the press a couple of days after the event are not trustworthy."

You might want to read the article again. Her attorney made the statement to the press, not her. By all accounts, she has not spoken to the press at all yet.

58 posted on 11/07/2021 2:37:44 AM PST by SirFishalot
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To: conservative98

I have armorer certifications from 4 different major firearm manufactures.

Dummy rounds were used in function testing of the firearms in all the courses. They were all clearly marked care being taken to make sure one could not mistake them for real rounds.

When training required the use of dummy rounds they were all clearing marked.

Now brightly colored plastic ones are used a lot.

I have a couple of striper clips that full of dummy training training for the 1903 Springfield dated 1918.

Even back then they new the danger of mixing live an and dummy rounds.

They have creases in the case and are nickel plated.

As an instructor armorer for decades. I have made many dummy rounds and took great care in making sure they are easily identified.

To used dummy rounds that look so much alike that one can only tell by feel. Is the up most in stupide as many rounds of the same caliber can feel different.

125gr vs 158gr.

Full case of powder vs half a case of powder.

Yes very common as many different powders have very different weights for their charges.

The so called industry expert if he allowed dummy ammo that could not be easily recognized from live ammunition on the set.

Is not an expert at all.


59 posted on 11/07/2021 3:47:52 AM PST by riverrunner
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To: HypatiaTaught

I heard the director handed it to him with the words “cold gun.”


60 posted on 11/07/2021 5:16:03 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy." ― Mao Zedong)
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