Posted on 10/09/2021 9:13:29 AM PDT by Lazamataz
From September 30, 2021 presentation by Clint [redacted]
Email: [Redacted]
Disclaimer: comments by Clint [redacted] recorded here, should be viewed like something you would hear at a seminar. Since we have not yet hired Clint to represent us, his guidance is not specific legal advice to you individually or this group.
Clint’s initial message to us – about challenging mandates -- was a bitter pill, but it does clarify some things and help us focus on the things that matter. The more important discussion covered was how to successfully acquire an exemption, especially a religious one.
EEOC and Legal Challenges to Mandates
Takeaway: No viable path to stopping corporate’s mandate through the legal system (a good attorney will never say never, but the odds are long)
o EEOC is the enforcement agency
o EEOC updated its guidance in May to say that employers can require vaccinations as a condition of employment, subject to certain limitations
Takeaway: Courts and EEOC have affirmed that there are some limitations to a mandate:
o Example avenues for Religious Exemptions (you may find another)
§ Pro-life concerns about connections to aborted fetal cells
§ My body is a temple of God and I need to be discerning about what goes into my body.
o Can substitute a lawyer letter that explains why a clergy letter is not necessary and Clint [Redacted]t is willing to help with this type of letter
o Court said that since IU was not in fact mandating vaccinations because students had other choices and upheld the University mandate
o Appealed to Circuit Court and upheld
o Appealed to SC and Justice Barrett rejected appeal, letting the lower court ruling stand
o Issue was whether an employer could modify their conditions of employment after hiring someone. Constitutional claims dismissed because the employer was not acting as the government.
o Court went on to talk about Civil Rights Act protections
§ Suspicions about efficacy and risks cannot override the law.
§ Acknowledged that science can be wrong, but when it is preventing disease there is a lot of leeway.
§ Every employment includes limits on the employees behavior in exchange for renumeration.
§ If an employee believes his/her civil liberties are … they should exercise their right to seek other employment.
o Do not have to be residents of KY unless there is some special state statute that intervenes.
o Clint thinks it is reasonable to overturn this since Corporate has clearly established in that last 18 months that people can be WAH.
o This is a state by state issue and not Clint’s expertise
o KY certainly allows for disqualifications for insubordination, misconduct
o Employee needs to make it clear they want to keep their job and continue working and that is why they submitted an RE
o If you resign voluntarily, then you are not eligible for unemployment
o He believes this will be challenged
o Most of the legal cases here were before any vaccine had FDA approval and the courts still upheld mandates.
o The EUA statute applies to medical provider. And the IU cases, the judge said it is really not a mandate.
o He doesn’t know that this has been answered. There is suggestion that there should be responsibility. Some have suggested asking the employer if I am willing to do this, are you willing to compensate me for adverse reaction.
o He believes the EEOC would support this person because they learned something new.
o The one case he knows of settled pretty quick in favor of the plaintiff who was arguing that he did not need a vaccine because he had antibodies.
o When the situation seems to require something the law doesn’t require.
o Helps to have numbers either named or unnamed.
Just posted my religious exemption that I’ve been working by on for two weeks and seems to o fall inline with what you posted.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3999784/posts?page=2171#2171
Ping to self
All:
Well stated.
I have “lurked” on Freerepublic for 18 years. I stay away from posting due to the sensitive nature of work in the IC and Navy. I can’t read in silence anymore. Both my careers, Navy Reserves which I so dearly love, and civilian career as data scientist, are at risk due to this government.
A couple of questions for experts: do empathetic and sympatheict doctors exist? Mine has drank the full-on Kool Aid.
Anyone have experience getting a vaccine waiver for Long Haul COVID?
If we are terminated due to inabiity to get shot for medical reasons, doesn’t that fall under ADA/discrimation?
Companies who have Federal contracts ARE REQUIRED to have employees vaccinated. This is separate from Biden’s mandate.
The business rationale for requiring the vaccine is “the vaccine prevents spread”. 3 of my doctors, including a doc at Walter Reed, verified it does NOT prevent the spread. Am I misguided to accuse my employer of firing me under false pretenses, since the vaccine does NOT prevent the spread and therefore unvaccinated are NOT a danger to other employees?
God bless this forum and its members. I should be more interactive since I know longer have any more to lose...
Safe side? When this all goes to Hell, you may have put yourself on the unsafe side.
Nobody knows the long term effects of this jab on your body. Nobody.
If you believe Big Pharma or the Government you are…. I won’t say it.
“It is cute how you say ‘fetal cell lines — not fetal tissue’ as if there is a difference.”
I used quoted material so my rewording is not an issue.
Those who wish to get a religious exemption need to know what arguments they will face and how to respond well to them, and to state their original claim in the best manner possible as to get an exemption without further ado.
I would like people to safeguard themselves appropriately and I would also like to safeguard American liberty against all tyrants, now and in the future.
Why not give the employer a letter to sign making them responsible for any adverse effects of the shot. Watch them hem and haw.
“you may have put yourself on the unsafe side”
That may be so.
However, I believe the mRNA vaccines are cleared in a few weeks and side effects would show up in a few weeks.
If my heart muscle got weakened 1% by vaccination that might be critical in future years.
There are often risks and benefits with decisions. May everybody here make the right ones for themselves.
“Medical, Immune exemption: Evidence of existing immunity (e.g., by serologic antibody test, documentation of previous infection or natural infection presumed)”
“Health care professionals are available for consultation regarding exemption recommendations. Both health care professionals and service members are encouraged to contact the DHA Immunization Healthcare Support Center at 877-438-8222 (DSN 761-4245), Option 1, for vaccine medical exemption guidance.”
I’m a civilian so I have no experience with the system.
It cites two cases that involves the anthrax vaccine that were unfavorable to servicepeople.
It is my opinion that enlisting in the service comes with about a 1/2000 risk of death, about 500 times greater than the risk of death from vaccination.
Enlisted people might consult a doctor to choose the best course of vaccination. Probably the Pfizer is best unless they really need the more likely better hospitalization protection of the Moderna. Expect to have to get boosters with the Pfizer.
If you have a Republican Congressional representative, ask the representative to support a natural immunity exception in the military funding bill.
Early organ damage from the jab would have shown up within a few weeks. It is the long term damage done by fooling your immune system into producing antibodies for a virus protein that you own body was fooled into producing that is the big threat to your life.
Your T. Cells may not recognize the real disease as a threat down the line, thus creating the cytokine storm you took the Vax to prevent.
We won’t know if that is going to occur in the next outbreak or not.
The one thing we do know is that the Vax does not keep you from getting Covid and it doesn’t keep you from spreading it to others.
Good luck.
Who cares what the courts say. Has this nation become dark ages England?
The precedents are very unfavorable.
Dear Commander-in-Chief Joseph R. Biden:
If you are going to be so disrespectful of the science of natural immunity and of the value of my husband’s life, health and belief in the value of all human life, I will make sure that he will not be reenlisting.
A Loving Wife
Actually, there is a clause there for the individual receiving the shot:
Paragraph (e) (1) (A) (2) (III) of
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/360bbb-3
says:
"Appropriate conditions designed to ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed ...of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product..."
Per the Exec Order, sec 4b of that says it's to be implemented consistent w/law. The statute above would apply (as long as Cominarty is not available in U.S.) and an OSHA reg does not have supremacy over statute.
Obviously, once Cominarty is available, the above is moot, however, it is likely not to be here before the EO mandate goes into effect, allowing time for other cases to make their way through the system.
Bttt.
5.56mm
Thanks.
BFL
In the big picture, my service in the Reserves can end at anytime I wish. No matter my love of the service.
Being a civilian-sailor, the imminent issue to my Pursuit of Happiness is the corporate mandate's threat to my civilian job, much like millions of American now face.
Before I can begin a different venue of defending our way of life, as in running for office, I first have to secure my family's future. And this is how we are thrown off balance. People find it hard to fight back when they first have to fight for family survival.
I do not wish to hijack this Post for personal reasons. I do very much appreciate the advice flowing to the members.
Thank you, Laz.
Thank you for all this information.
Cool Thanks, Resist we much!
Excellent post, Laz. Thank you!
Also check out Liberty Counsel www.lc.org
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