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These thoughts have been on my mind for quite some time now. I'd like to hear your thoughts as well.
1 posted on 01/19/2021 4:38:09 PM PST by rfreedom4u
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To: rfreedom4u

“It is not denied that there may be cases in which a respect to the general principles of LIBERTY, the essential RIGHTS of the people, or the overruling sentiments of humanity, might require a government, whether new or old, to be treated as an ILLEGITIMATE despotism.”

James Madison

So, whats your opinion? Better to belong to a despotism or go your own way and seek out individual liberty under a new nation that favors that?


76 posted on 01/19/2021 5:30:40 PM PST by crz
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To: rfreedom4u

Lincoln killed 700,000 Americans to show us secession is illegal.


80 posted on 01/19/2021 5:32:53 PM PST by Organic Panic (Flinging poo is not a valid argument)
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To: rfreedom4u

When it comes down, don’t ask.
The Founders didn’t ask George for permission.


83 posted on 01/19/2021 5:34:11 PM PST by sasquatch
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To: rfreedom4u

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.


90 posted on 01/19/2021 5:39:47 PM PST by TexasGurl24
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To: rfreedom4u

Thanks for posting your thoughts!

If I were to join a club and did not like what the club became, I would be well within my rights to quit that club. If I go to see a movie and don’t like it, I can walk out.

So why would anyone believe that the United States is a “once you’re in you can’t leave” type of deal? When someone doesn’t like the state in which they live they are free to move to another state or even another country.

If secession/independence/splitting up is supported for other people in the world why is it not ok for citizens of the United States? And yes, I know that politicians are garbage and want to maintain their power and control.

So please give me your opinion on whether it is legal or not and why you think that way? But please spare me the “if it’s broke, we don’t run away, we fix it” argument. At this point I am fairly certain that it is not repairable.


94 posted on 01/19/2021 5:41:46 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Law & order took the last train out of DC and Ameriica on election/coup/night, Tues., Nov. 03, 2020!)
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To: rfreedom4u

No. It’s not legal. That’s why we fought the Civil War.


98 posted on 01/19/2021 5:54:53 PM PST by Dave W ( )
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To: rfreedom4u

You are missing the whole point of the “union”. The Declaration and the Constitution establish the framework of not just a union of states but of “one people”. It was a vote of the people in ratifying conventions in each new state that created the union. One joined it takes the consent of the whole for a State to depart. You are simultaneously a citizen of your state and of the nation as a whole. Just as one state may not abrogate or diminish your citizenship rights in another state, a state may not abrogate or diminish your national citizenship though secession. Lincoln laid this all out, many times.

There is no constitutional process for dissolving all or part of this union of states and people. A constitutional amendment would have to be enacted that would lay out the process. Good luck with that. Just trying to figure out who absorbs the national debt or how to keep social security payments flowing or how to divide military assets would never be resolved.

You may not be a citizen of California or Texas or Ohio, but as an American you have as much “right” to to those states as anyone else. Equal protection of the law and other federal rights is what you gained in union, having that also granted to all American citizens. That can’t be taken from you by another citizen or a state in any legal manner.


101 posted on 01/19/2021 5:56:41 PM PST by Badboo (It is not science, it is subservience.)
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To: rfreedom4u

By the 10th amendment secession should be legal. The stupid Confederate attack on Fort Sumter and the resulting civil war of 1861-65 has caused the subject of secession to become legally unclear.


104 posted on 01/19/2021 5:58:01 PM PST by devere
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To: rfreedom4u

TEXAS can.


107 posted on 01/19/2021 5:59:47 PM PST by mabarker1 ((Congress- the opposite of PROGRESS!!! A fraud, a hypocrite, a liar. I'm a member of Congress !!!!)
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To: rfreedom4u

Sometimes if you ask the wrong question you get the wrong answer.

This is a classic example—really dumb and irrelevant question...

If a state secedes, the lawyers will be the least of their worries. :-(


114 posted on 01/19/2021 6:06:18 PM PST by cgbg (A kleptocracy--if they can keep it.)
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To: rfreedom4u

If I remember my history correctly that disagreement is settled by bullets.


118 posted on 01/19/2021 6:14:20 PM PST by joshua c (Jan 20th is Dump Day. Dump them all. Twitter, Facebook, Google, Amazon, cable tv etc)
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To: rfreedom4u

Jefferson Davis was arrested at the end of the Civil War ostensibly to be charged and tried for Treason. Never happened and he was released. Why? Because legal scholars and others at the time could not show that secession was unconstitutional.


139 posted on 01/19/2021 6:47:00 PM PST by Breeda
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To: rfreedom4u

Follow the “sanctuary” model and decide on a county or state level to reject whatever federal laws you don’t like. Democrats established the precedence with wholesale disobedience to both drug laws and immigration laws.


155 posted on 01/19/2021 7:15:27 PM PST by tbw2
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To: rfreedom4u

Legal? You just watched an election get stolen, no one is in jail and you are worried about legal?


157 posted on 01/19/2021 7:19:32 PM PST by krizzy (Lets Dance.....Yippi Kyi Ayee.)
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To: rfreedom4u

Totally irrelevant.

Secession is probably going to happen at some point.

At least a civil war and massive chaos as blues and reds sock it to each other leading up to efforts for a peaceful solution.

Think Czechoslovakia’s peaceful divorce.


161 posted on 01/19/2021 7:27:22 PM PST by Sapwolf (Talkers are usually more articulate than doers, since talk is their specialty. -Sowell)
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To: rfreedom4u

Don’t even ask for permission. Just do it!


165 posted on 01/19/2021 7:45:37 PM PST by TonyM (Score Event)
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To: rfreedom4u
Secession, without the consent of the other states, is not legal:

In light of all that, it seems clear to me that the Founders did not believe that a state could lawfully secede or withdraw from the Union. As the Supreme Court majority in Texas v. White recognized when holding that secession was unconstitutional, secession can only be accomplished through the consent of the other states or "revolution," an overthrowing of the existing legal regime.
197 posted on 01/19/2021 10:06:34 PM PST by The Pack Knight
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bfl


212 posted on 01/20/2021 3:47:02 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: rfreedom4u
So why would anyone believe that the United States is a "once you're in you can't leave" type of deal?
See Mafia. La Cosa Nostra. US Federal Government - all the same. You can try to leave, but doing so is tantamount to a death sentence.
221 posted on 01/20/2021 3:59:56 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: rfreedom4u

Whether it’s a good idea or not, the question of the legality of secession is probably irrelevant when abject tyranny is the issue.


234 posted on 01/20/2021 4:38:14 AM PST by windsorknot
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