“It is not denied that there may be cases in which a respect to the general principles of LIBERTY, the essential RIGHTS of the people, or the overruling sentiments of humanity, might require a government, whether new or old, to be treated as an ILLEGITIMATE despotism.”
James Madison
So, whats your opinion? Better to belong to a despotism or go your own way and seek out individual liberty under a new nation that favors that?
Lincoln killed 700,000 Americans to show us secession is illegal.
When it comes down, don’t ask.
The Founders didn’t ask George for permission.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Thanks for posting your thoughts!
If I were to join a club and did not like what the club became, I would be well within my rights to quit that club. If I go to see a movie and don’t like it, I can walk out.
So why would anyone believe that the United States is a “once you’re in you can’t leave” type of deal? When someone doesn’t like the state in which they live they are free to move to another state or even another country.
If secession/independence/splitting up is supported for other people in the world why is it not ok for citizens of the United States? And yes, I know that politicians are garbage and want to maintain their power and control.
So please give me your opinion on whether it is legal or not and why you think that way? But please spare me the “if it’s broke, we don’t run away, we fix it” argument. At this point I am fairly certain that it is not repairable.
No. It’s not legal. That’s why we fought the Civil War.
You are missing the whole point of the “union”. The Declaration and the Constitution establish the framework of not just a union of states but of “one people”. It was a vote of the people in ratifying conventions in each new state that created the union. One joined it takes the consent of the whole for a State to depart. You are simultaneously a citizen of your state and of the nation as a whole. Just as one state may not abrogate or diminish your citizenship rights in another state, a state may not abrogate or diminish your national citizenship though secession. Lincoln laid this all out, many times.
There is no constitutional process for dissolving all or part of this union of states and people. A constitutional amendment would have to be enacted that would lay out the process. Good luck with that. Just trying to figure out who absorbs the national debt or how to keep social security payments flowing or how to divide military assets would never be resolved.
You may not be a citizen of California or Texas or Ohio, but as an American you have as much “right” to to those states as anyone else. Equal protection of the law and other federal rights is what you gained in union, having that also granted to all American citizens. That can’t be taken from you by another citizen or a state in any legal manner.
By the 10th amendment secession should be legal. The stupid Confederate attack on Fort Sumter and the resulting civil war of 1861-65 has caused the subject of secession to become legally unclear.
TEXAS can.
Sometimes if you ask the wrong question you get the wrong answer.
This is a classic example—really dumb and irrelevant question...
If a state secedes, the lawyers will be the least of their worries. :-(
If I remember my history correctly that disagreement is settled by bullets.
Jefferson Davis was arrested at the end of the Civil War ostensibly to be charged and tried for Treason. Never happened and he was released. Why? Because legal scholars and others at the time could not show that secession was unconstitutional.
Follow the “sanctuary” model and decide on a county or state level to reject whatever federal laws you don’t like. Democrats established the precedence with wholesale disobedience to both drug laws and immigration laws.
Legal? You just watched an election get stolen, no one is in jail and you are worried about legal?
Totally irrelevant.
Secession is probably going to happen at some point.
At least a civil war and massive chaos as blues and reds sock it to each other leading up to efforts for a peaceful solution.
Think Czechoslovakia’s peaceful divorce.
Don’t even ask for permission. Just do it!
bfl
So why would anyone believe that the United States is a "once you're in you can't leave" type of deal?See Mafia. La Cosa Nostra. US Federal Government - all the same. You can try to leave, but doing so is tantamount to a death sentence.
Whether it’s a good idea or not, the question of the legality of secession is probably irrelevant when abject tyranny is the issue.