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To: rfreedom4u

You are missing the whole point of the “union”. The Declaration and the Constitution establish the framework of not just a union of states but of “one people”. It was a vote of the people in ratifying conventions in each new state that created the union. One joined it takes the consent of the whole for a State to depart. You are simultaneously a citizen of your state and of the nation as a whole. Just as one state may not abrogate or diminish your citizenship rights in another state, a state may not abrogate or diminish your national citizenship though secession. Lincoln laid this all out, many times.

There is no constitutional process for dissolving all or part of this union of states and people. A constitutional amendment would have to be enacted that would lay out the process. Good luck with that. Just trying to figure out who absorbs the national debt or how to keep social security payments flowing or how to divide military assets would never be resolved.

You may not be a citizen of California or Texas or Ohio, but as an American you have as much “right” to to those states as anyone else. Equal protection of the law and other federal rights is what you gained in union, having that also granted to all American citizens. That can’t be taken from you by another citizen or a state in any legal manner.


101 posted on 01/19/2021 5:56:41 PM PST by Badboo (It is not science, it is subservience.)
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To: Badboo

People are citizens of the states they live in

And because they are citizens of hose states they are ciizens of the usa

The founders held this view overwhelmingly, the union was mentioned second, they were virginians, and new yorkers, and pennslyvanians, and also because of that, citizens of the unted stages


115 posted on 01/19/2021 6:06:29 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not Averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Badboo
The Declaration and the Constitution establish the framework of not just a union of states but of “one people”.

Meanwhile, in reality, the Declaration of Independence was a beautiful disunionist manifesto.

It was a vote of the people in ratifying conventions in each new state that created the union.

Thereby proving that membership is maintained by the consent of the people of any said state. After all, the mechanism was not a referendum for the people of, say Vermont, to allow the former colony of New York to join.

One joined it takes the consent of the whole for a State to depart.

Which theory contradicts the historical circumstance of individual states choosing for themselves whether they are part of the union or not.

You are simultaneously a citizen of your state and of the nation as a whole.

Federal citizenship as you're imagining it was created by the Fourteenth Amendment to resolve the issue of it-not-actually-even-existing-prior-to-the-rump-ratification-of-the-Fourteenth-Amendment.

Just as one state may not abrogate or diminish your citizenship rights in another state, a state may not abrogate or diminish your national citizenship though secession.

Oh, how you must resent those damned revolutionaries who deprived your fellow subjects of their ability to participate in the Crown's government. Unless, of course, you're complete hypocrite.

Lincoln laid this all out, many times.

Lincoln wasn't around when the constitution was being crafted, how could he 'lay out' anything?

There is no constitutional process for dissolving all or part of this union of states and people. A constitutional amendment would have to be enacted that would lay out the process.

Most of our rights are unaccompanied by a constitutionally mandated process. The First Amendment guarantees the rights of free expression, religious observation, political demonstration, publication without prior constraint, and the right to specifically petition the government. But that same amendment provides NO guidance for how to enjoy them because rights don't originate with government and the constitution doesn't create rights -- it merely prohibits government intrusion into our exercise of our own original rights. The whole premise of the American experiment in self-government is that the people of each of the several states have the sovereign and natural right to withdraw from political union to which they withhold consent. As with other rights, the "process" would consist of the federal government staying the hell out of it.

Good luck with that. Just trying to figure out who absorbs the national debt or how to keep social security payments flowing or how to divide military assets would never be resolved.

Yeah, because nations never negotiate treaties and shit./s

You may not be a citizen of California or Texas or Ohio, but as an American you have as much “right” to to those states as anyone else. Equal protection of the law and other federal rights is what you gained in union, having that also granted to all American citizens. That can’t be taken from you by another citizen or a state in any legal manner.

Next time I take my ar-15 through a New York airport or visit a public firing range in California with my thirty-round magazines, I'll be sure to direct any inquiring authorities your way. You'll straighten them out for me.

208 posted on 01/20/2021 12:10:51 AM PST by Brass Lamp
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To: Badboo

Equal protection of the law and other federal rights is what you gained in union, having that also granted to all American citizens. That can’t be taken from you by another citizen or a state in any legal manner.

Those gun control laws infringe on our 2nd Amendment Rights.


311 posted on 02/28/2021 5:55:19 PM PST by rfreedom4u ("You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas")
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