Thomas Becket: Alpine ice sheds light on medieval murder

BBC ^ | March 31, 2020 | Matt McGrath

[SunkenCiv]

Lead and silver are often mined together and in this period, mines in the Peak District and in Cumbria were among the most productive in Europe.

The researchers were able to match the physical records from the ice with the written tax records of lead and silver production in England.

Lead had many uses in this time, from water pipes to church roofs to stained glass windows.

But production of the metal was clearly linked to political events according to the authors of this latest research.

"In the 1169-70 period, there was a major disagreement between Henry II and Thomas Beckett and that clash manifested itself by the church refusing to work with Henry - and you actually see a fall in that production that year," said Prof Christopher Loveluck, from Nottingham University.

Excommunicated by the Pope in the wake of the murder, Henry's attempt at reconciliation is detailed in the ice core.

"To get himself out of jail with the Pope, Henry promised to endow and build a lot of major monastic institutions very, very quickly," said Prof Loveluck.

"And of course, massive amounts of lead were used for roofing of these major monastic complexes.

[SunkenCiv]

Peveril Castle in the Peak District served as the administrative centre of lead mining in the area

[SunkenCiv]

[Red Badger]

Thus came the phrase, “GET THE LEAD OUT!”.......................

[Beowulf9]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/16479/production/_111475219_becket1.png

[Beowulf9]

Is this really a medieval illustration? Because the character that is supposed to be Beckett looks a bit like Richard Burton’s who played him in the movie? Otherwise, the medieval artists, don’t they just do their work great? the guy who has the sword to his back (article says he was beheaded) and looking straight out at the viewer, almost looks comical, deadpan expression. And how about the guy at the back facing the wall with his sword face down, ready to strike...? He’s what, 3 feet from his target and cant find it? Never understood after Rome and Greece great art how the guys in the medieval days couldn’t get it right.

[SunkenCiv]

Colorized at least. BTW, I didn’t use that because it’s Getty.

[SES1066]

There is an image that is supposed to be contemporary with the event and you can see that the 'dress' of the knights; Reginald FitzUrse, Hugh de Morville, William de Tracy and Richard le Breton, looks a lot closer to what one sees from the Bayeux Tapestry.

[SunkenCiv]

Thomas Becket woodcut

Google

[jmacusa]

Artists of that period weren't permitted by the church to study anatomy and the naked human form as an artists model. Da Vinci changed all that. He butted heads over the church frequently but he eventually won out. His detailed drawings of human anatomy are as relevant to medicine today as they were then.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks SES1066.

[William Tell]

Any other direct descendants of Henry II here? My brother traced us back through some ancestry site.

Perhaps half the people on earth are direct descendants.

Do I have any distant cousins on this thread?

[Beowulf9]

Hey, thanks for that info.

Well, we see how well THAT worked out.

[Beowulf9]

Getty as in J Paul? The Museum? They don’t share? But I did get that from the article?

[colorado tanker]

Becket was a good movie, but very historically inaccurate.

[SunkenCiv]

Getty images are verboten on FR.

[AppyPappy]

“Won’t someone rid me of the this meddlesome priest?”

[SunkenCiv]

The entertainment industry doesn't make documentaries. :^)

[SunkenCiv]

My officious quibble regarding "direct descendants" -- there is no such thing as "indirect descendants".

[SES1066]

Any other direct descendants of Henry II here? My brother traced us back through some ancestry site.

From what I hear, even more are descended from Charles the Great, aka Charlemagne, INCLUDING Henry II, but not 50% of humans alive on Earth. Consider the billions of India, China, Japan and the rest of East Asia. Quotes of descent like this generally refer to 'European Descent' as a caveat. By the time you get past 32 generation / 800+ years, the odds of direct descent to anyone who had children surviving to adulthood, approaches 100%.

[William Tell]

"... there is no such thing as "indirect descendants".

Is there a group noun which includes cousins, uncles, and aunts? Is an uncle or an aunt just a special case of a cousin? Then there are nephews and nieces. Is a male sibling a special case of nephew?

I've heard mention of a "direct order" in the military. Is there such a thing as an "indirect order"? Do you have to obey such a thing?

Electrical terms include "direct current". I've never heard of "indirect current". Would that be lightning?

I have a direct descendant (my daughter) who is a linguist. I may have to ask her.

Thanks, cousin.