Posted on 08/12/2019 7:35:28 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT
Toyota, Ford plan to keep hybrids as core part of their lineups, showing split in auto industry
“If I had a dollar more to invest, would I spend it on a hybrid? Or would I spend it on the answer that we all know is going to happen, and get there faster and better than anybody else?” GM President Mark Reuss
Last week, Continental AG , one of the world’s biggest car-parts makers, said it would cut investment in conventional engine parts because of a faster-than-expected fall in demand—yet another sign the industry is accelerating the shift to electric vehicles.
Today, auto companies generally lose money on each electric car they sell, mostly because of the high cost of lithium-ion batteries.
VW and GM are focused on all-electric cars largely because of China, where new regulations require car companies to sell a minimum number of zero-emissions vehicles to avoid financial penalties.
or now, both hybrids and electric cars are more expensive to produce than comparable gas-powered vehicles. A hybrid system can add roughly $2,000 to a vehicle’s cost, while a fully electric version is an additional $6,000 to $10,000
(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...
It’s the charging time. I can get enough fuel in my car to go 450 miles in 10 minutes.
How many days a year do you drive 450 a day?
NOT MANY!
Table 5b. Trends in the Average Person Trip Length by Trip Purpose
https://nhts.ornl.gov/assets/2017_nhts_summary_travel_trends.pdf
That’s because they are COMMUTER VEHICLES... once thats all you have are electrics, you will need to be able to charge them “on the road”, and without MILLIONS of places to do so, its a non starter.
...
Counting all types of cars, the average person drives 29 miles a day.
Electric service is everywhere and much easier to establish than gas stations.
In fact, gas stations are now starting to install chargers.
>> The first person who freezes to death in an electric vehicle because its range was cut in half and no charging was available will make all-electrics a non-starter for most Americans. <<
“The first person who runs out of gas will make...”
Sorry, but I can jam about 9 gallons of gas into my Honda Accord, despite its supposedly 14.5-gallon tank. And it gets about 30 MPG, not the 40 advertised. So that’s a 270-mile range. I’ve had bigger, old cars get similar range with bigger tanks and lower MPG. So there’s nothing freakishly low about Tesla’s 265/320/345-mile ranges. Leaf on the other hand... ick.
As for the availability of charging stations, they’ll soon become as ubiquitous as unleaded gas.
My 97 Jeep gets about 15 mpg..
But weighs over a ton and a half.
Are you bragging, or complaining?
How much is gas in Cali? When we visited hybrid and electric cars got special parking spaces close to everything
Actually, since electric cars act as batteries, they’ll help balance the “duck” problem with electrical capacity.
Now, if everyone in a locale intended to drive their electrical cars 300 miles in a given day, that would be a problem. But most people just charge them for work and back most days.
I just posted the same... This has been known for quite awhile now. And the concept needs much less in drivetrain complexity therefore also reducing that drivetrain loss from increased friction of that assembly.
A 3 HP electric motor will do the same work as a 5 horse gasoline engine.
Wife’s Prius V battery warranty is good for 8 years or 100,000 miles.
No indication of any battery degradation after the three years we have driven it.
Our Prius has electric heat(FAST), the newer one use engine heat (HOTTER).
NYSEG in NYS is asking for a 24% rate increase for electricity.
NYSEG consumers, enjoy your electric cars.
Mr. Magoo Prius owners do not know this...
As a Prius V owner, I can assure you I have a basic understanding of the power source; THE SUN!!!
Power generators don’t seem concerned with capacity.
Go to page 8.
A simple Level 2 EV Charging Station only uses about 5 kW (if that).
Tesla is coming out with 150kW stations soon. While that’s great, most of the cars that currently have Fast Charge options can only suck up 25kW max right now.
I only pay about $25-$30 in electricity per month using my 2019 LEAF. The range is 180 miles. I will never go back to hybrid/combustion. And I can outrace any Mustang or Camero out there.
Depends on who your utility is of course.
The new 2020 Leaf will have 230 mile range.
Tesla’s get well over 400 miles.
I’m curious to see what Ford’s F150 will have.
That V looks like a monster next to the C....
what kills me is, I bought a real spare tire package and carry around my golf clubs, so I wonder what the mpg’s would be without the added weight...
In general I agree with you.
I think what we’re really hearing from these companies though is that when they look at the pace of developments it’s positive enough to see the writing on the wall.
Battery technology is improving, charging times are reducing, and they’re far simpler devices to engineer. The days of 80% charging within 15 minutes is coming. The main problem will be the power grid, it’s just not ready to handle the additional load.
I’m no greenie but I’ve recently switched to lithium-ion battery powered garden devices (lawn mower, snow blower, trimmer, etc.) because it makes sense. They’re powerful, quiet, recharge in 45 mins...so with the 3 batteries I have I could work non stop, although I usually get everything done on a single charge. No more gas, oil, spark plugs, maintenance, etc. - especially for the snowblower in winter, I always see people having to troubleshoot them in sub-zero temps. No more!
IMO - a battery “swapping” technology makes more sense. A station could have stacks of them ready to go and switch them in minutes (automate it). You’d basically have the convenience everyone wants.
Once it makes sense I will buy one, at this moment it doesn’t but these companies have to make decisions today that reflect vehicle technology expected to be ready for production in 5+ years. It doesn’t surprise me.
As soon as government policy STOPS propping up these abominations they’ll die a deserved death.
You’re saving money on the taxpayer’s dime...
All valid points you make.
That day where a 300 mile range is normal for an EV is coming very very soon. Probably less than 3 years.
The new charging stations coming out will offer 125-150kW that can top off a battery in probably 15-20 minutes (assuming you are close to 0% battery).
Electrify America, ChargePoint, EVgo are just a few of those starting to put those out.
The Electric Car Concept is not going away.
Ok, and how much is it to replace the batteries on your 8 year old car?
New from dealer $2500?
New aftermarket $1600
Refurb replacement $700 (IIRC they will do it at your house for that price.)
Replacing the dead cells, $25 each (IIRC 28 cells total)
I was more interested in how the one you bought in 2000 held up.
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