Posted on 04/30/2019 9:33:26 AM PDT by WhoisAlanGreenspan?
Juan's latest update is well worth checking out. He attempts putting the unstable design theories to rest.
Also Boeing Shareholder Press Briefing
The Boeing official’s comments were also disturbing in that he emphasized that they followed their internal safety protocols, as if that makes it OK. What he didn't say is that their internal safety protocols might need to be updated and strengthened.
In my view, anything designed that could cause people to die if it fails should be built with multiple redundancies, and with redundancies and backstops in place to prevent or overcome possible operator (e.g. pilot) error.
The general flying public shouldnt have to wait for a disaster to take place on US soil for Boeing to be held accountable for its criminal negligence.
This disaster was the fault of the incompetent 3rd world pilots who didn’t switch off the two clearly labeled switches next to the trim control when the automatic trim malfunctioned. They are part of the Before Taxi checklist that they had just completed about 5 minutes previously. People who know absolutely nothing about how to fly an airplane keep blaming Boeing because of the nonsensical coverage by the MSM who have the ability to interview knowledgeable people but would rather follow their own narrative.
Boeing airplanes and the 737 in particular have the most incredible safety record in the history of aviation. Boeing aircraft are the primary reason you are over 60 times less likely to die in an “accident” per mile traveled in an airliner than in your car. You are 6 times more likely to die in a train accident per mile traveled.
Every 737 flying today has the trim stabilizer cutoff switches in the same place in case the trim malfunctions. Every 737 pilot is required to know where they are and what they do. The pilots were criminally negligent not Boeing.
I have been a pilot for 30 years; I have lived on an airport with our airplane with a bunch of airline pilots for 25 years. I have no connection with Boeing in any form other than living in Washington State. My brother has been a 737 captain for Southwest for decades Just stating the facts and what my airline pilot neighbors and brother tell me about 737s.
Some of the pilots who voiced complaints about the 737 MAXs MCAS software even before the first 3rd world crash were Americans. There are also problems in their latest batch of military aircraft. The MAX is a different plane both structurally and technologically than a normal 737.
The MAX was Boeings rush offering to compete with the latest Airbus model during the 2010 years and in so doing, scrubbed their initial pursuit of constructing a whole new innovative plane model to begin with.
I am the daughter of a now retired pilot and a frequent domestic flyer. I suggest you view each side with objectivity. Boeing has undergone quite a few developments in corporate culture since its honorable beginnings...as so many once great American institutions have during the cultural deterioration we have experienced during the Clinton/Bush/Obama years.
Boeing by the way donated a cool $10 million to the building of Obamas presidential library in Chicago, making them among the largest donors. They are a politically powerful and relevant entity that can easily avoid the necessary scutiny required to hold them accountable. The MSM is more likely to cover for Boeing than they are in bringing truth to power for similar reasons. Money, ties, sponsorships, shareholdings etc...
Rampant corruption has infected every level of our society and economy and compromising/dishonoring our free market. This is something to keep in mind before zoning in on Boeing specifically.
One thing I love about this situation is quite a predictable BA stock fluctuation. Made $23k off it buying and shorting back and forth.
“The general flying public shouldnt have to wait for a disaster to take place on US soil for Boeing to be held accountable for its criminal negligence.”
Agree 100%.
However since BA is a huge part of the DJIA and the FAA cannot afford to lose credibility for certifying a plane that never should have been certified, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
To the extent any of those culpable actually are held accountable, it will be done quietly with the media largely ignoring it.
He is a 777 FO that was formally rated to fly 737's. Some of his former videos suggest he is an AA pilot. He did a series of Oroville dam spillway videos that were well received.
The Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg is the same guy who in a statement reacting to the grounding of the MAX fleet said "we own it". Now he's insisting that multiple factors contributed, implying the flight crews which is probably true to some degree. Maybe like 99% Boeing and the FAA and 1% Pilots and passengers who all would have been better off calling in sick that day.
You can tell he and Boeing have now gone lawyer speak by saying the retooled MCAS software will now be "even more safe". Kind of like saying if you rub two sticks together you can generate some heat. It will be refreshing to see both the FAA & Boeing applying some thought to the MCAS system instead of just rubbing it in.
Boeing has, in my opinion, done far greater good than bad for aviation, our economy and our country for many years. But they don't deserve a pass on this issue of the 737 MAX and the MCAS death trap.
I'm not a pilot but I was just about born an aviation enthusiast. I'm now retired but I designed and built automated machinery for a good while and I frankly couldn't be more disappointed by how this story has played out.
Somehow the idea that a ‘retooled bit of software’ on an aircraft that weighs 177,000 pounds is going to make me safe doesn’t sit that well with me.. It reminds me too much of the ‘automatic’ software updates from Apple and Microsoft (”This update will make your computer more secure and stable, and fixes a bug that could lead to an explosion when you press the escape key”).
Thanks for the minute marks. Appreciated. On a side note, I watched him through the entire Oroville dam developments. Learned there that he gets it correct and the media was way behind in fact and details.
Nothing that you mentioned in your post has anything to do with the cause of the crash in Africa.
Yes, Boeing has contributed to leftist causes... it has nothing to do with the quality and design of their products. Saying that the 737 MAX is different from other 737 airplanes is like saying that a 2000 Ford F150 is different from a 2004 Ford F250, true but completely irrelevant.
It makes absolutely no difference what caused the automatic stabilizer trim to malfunction... every mechanical or electronic devise is eventually going to malfunction. In this case all the pilots had to do was to flick the two switches that control it to manual... something which is done the same way with switches in the same place on every 737 still flying. It was obvious in this case that this was an automatic trim malfunction. Automatic trim is a luxury not an essential piece of flight equipment, the idiosyncrasies of how it works on various 737s is different, but the way that you disable it is exactly the same.
That a couple of buffoons who didn't remember how to disable the automatic trim at a critical moment were at the controls of any 737 does point out the one thing that Boeing is negligent of... they have made their airplanes too easy to fly. However, I don't think that constitutes "criminal negligence" as you have accused them of.
If you called it 99.99% the fault of the PILOTS and the people who allowed two unqualified 3rd world idiots to take the controls of a 737 then you would be getting a little closer to the truth. But I guess we are suppose to be a little more sensitive to dead people who shouldn't even be allowed to be at the controls of a moped. And one wonders about the judgement of those who accept the MSM nonsense hook line and sinker also.
Jesus didn't die for one color of people. You and I know that.
This is some sort of stupid being hoisted over the normal stupid of you and I being dragged into further
I am a retired firefighter but I am not a retired pilot. I am a private pilot who owns airplanes and lives on an airport. If you were a pilot, I am not sure what we would even be arguing about. I have not had any real disagreements with anyone about this who is or was an actual pilot.
At this point there appears to be no real mystery about this crash. The automatic trim control malfunctioned and the the pilots did not know how to disable it. Are you questioning that the two labeled switches located next to the trim wheel would have disabled the automatic trim? Are you questioning whether the two pilots should both have known how to disable the automatic trim using the two switches?
Boeing has been going along with this dog and pony show because they have known from day one that the two pilots are responsible for the crash and that any competent investigation by aviation professionals will conclude this as well. After this inevitable conclusion Boeing wants to be completely exonerated with no appearance of any influence over the investigators. Who could have foreseen the ridiculous narrative that the mainstream media has taken and the legions of boobs that have been bamboozled by them?
So at this point Boeing has been drug through the mud with tens of thousands of lawyers salivating over the chance to extract who knows how much cash from the largest and most successful airline builder in the world. Given Boeing’s contributions to liberal political causes like the Obama Library I guess it couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of guys. But it is still a travesty.
I agreed with your point(s) until it came out that Boeing disabled key parts of the system and didn’t inform the FAA or the airlines. Unforced error. The lawyers are going to have a big chunk of Boeing before this is over.
Oh bologna, this was an automatic trim malfunction. Pilots don’t need automatic trim to fly the airplane, the mechanics of how the automatic trim functions is not of any more concern to pilots than the mechanics of how the cruise control works on a drivers car. The primary thing for safety that a pilot needs to know about the automatic trim is how to turn it off it malfunctions, just like a driver needs to know how to turn off the cruise control on their car if it malfunctions.
The lawyers may be able to convince a bunch of people who don’t know crap about airplanes to give them a bunch of money. That is what has basically strangled general aviation into oblivion... lawyers convincing idiots that airplane manufacturers should pay the victims of incompetent pilots a bunch of money. When I see the way people here have fallen hook line and sinker for this nonsense it scares the hell out of me.
We agree about lawyers but that is the world we live in.
Based upon the timeline not sure the crew even had time to save the aircraft in Ethiopia.
Airbus 320’s had more than one incident and crash from AOA sensors/software problems.
Do some research. Read up on it, it won't hurt you.
The problem here is that you two have been doing too much reading and not enough understanding. The two pilots did not have to follow a complicated procedure. All any pilot has to do if there is an automatic trim malfunction in any airplane that has it... is turn off the automatic trim. In EVERY 737 this is done by turning off the two switches next to the manual trim wheel. The position of these switches is part of the Before Taxi checklist.
The plane flew for six minutes and reached an altitude of 9,000 feet before the pilots augured it in. If at any point during these 6 minutes they had turned the two switches that disable the automatic trim to the off position and reset the trim with the manual trim wheel they would not have crashed the airplane. This “procedure” would have taken approximately 2 seconds to complete. They had plenty of time; this should have been a very, very obvious and immediate response to what was happening.
The problem and frustration that I have when responding to non-pilots is that I forget that they do not in most cases have even the slightest inkling of what it is like to actually fly an aircraft. It seems strange to me that basic concepts cannot be understood. It is not that I am smarter than non-pilots but I have a vast amount of experience by comparison. And I have been through stressful and life threatening experiences during my flying.
When I was a kid you would find me jumping off of higher and higher structures and out of trees. My brother and I constructed huge kites to tow behind the tractors with the goal of getting ourselves aloft. We constructed larger and larger ramps for our bicycles to get airtime. I was a model aircraft buff, and when flight simulators programs first became available for home computers I immediately acquired various versions. And I was flying hang gliders and ultralight aircraft long before I got my pilots license over 30 years ago. So it is no wonder that learning to fly general aviation aircraft was very easy for me. But this is also the reason that I have little patience for those with stupid arguments about this “accident” caused completely by incompetent 3rd world pilots.
P L E A S E !!! Stop confusing yourself with convoluted explanations of how the MCAS system runs the automatic trim... it does not matter. Just remember just one thing... MCAS and the automatic trim can be turned off immediately with two toggle switches. It is not needed to fly the plane safely.
To my knowledge no one has tried to dispute this simple truth.
Unfortunately, the “timeline” in the article you linked to was written by someone who had no clue what they were writing about. The author spoke or read something and did not understand what they were being told. There is nonsensical info mixed in and the only thing that is clear from the account is that the pilots were confused and did not know what to do.
I read in another account that the pilots turned the switches off but that it was difficult to use the trim “wheels off at high speed” so they switched them back on. There is only one stabilizer trim wheel, the speed that you are traveling at has no effect on its operation and it moves the trim position rapidly and effectively. It is obvious that neither of these guys had a clue what was going on and were just flicking switches and fighting with the malfunctioning automatic trim and probably each other.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.