Posted on 03/04/2019 4:28:32 AM PST by C19fan
It was an inauspicious moment for a military the United States is banking on to help keep an expanding China in check. An Indian Air Force pilot found himself in a dogfight last week with a warplane from the Pakistani Air Force, and ended up a prisoner behind enemy lines for a brief time. The pilot made it home in one piece, however bruised and shaken, but the plane, an aging Soviet-era MiG-21, was less lucky. The aerial clash, the first by the South Asian rivals in nearly five decades, was a rare test for the Indian military — and it left observers a bit dumbfounded. While the challenges faced by the India’s armed forces are no secret, its loss of a plane last week to a country whose military is about half the size and receives a quarter of the funding was still telling.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
It is also the fact that peacetime practice seldom is sufficient training for fighter pilots, and when was the last time India and Pakistan had any major military conflicts employing their air forces?
It was 1999 - the Kargil War, and the air action was very limited, and included loss of two Indian aircraft. Strategically it was a victory for India as a Pakistani incursion into Indian-controlled Kashmir was reversed. Diplomatically it too was bad for Pakistan, as they tried to say it was “Kashmir militants” that started the whole thing, but documents found on captured Pakistanis and at overrun Pakistani encampments showed the involvement of top Pakistan military officers.
Before that it was 1971, during the Pakistan civil war (which led to the severing-indpendence of Eastern Pakistan, now known and Bangladesh) from Pakistan. Indian military got involved after several Indian air force installations were attacked by Pakistan, which Pakistan did trying to keep India from intervening on behalf of Eastern Pakistan (Bangladesh). THAT war went badly for Pakistan, with Bagnladesh obtaining independence from Pakistan. [They had originally been joined, during the partition of India and Pakistan, only because both sides (one west of India and the other east of India) were Muslim dominant.
Ethnic facts demonstrated that the two sides of Pakistan were two separate peoples, with their own histories, regardless of their shared religion. The western side - what is now Pakistan alone, from the start dominated and controlled the other side - what is now Bangladesh, and 22 years later their civil war broke out.
Larger India is going to have to modernize it’s military, do so with an eye on performance, not on trying to make everything themselves, and conduct more rigorous training. Peace has made them lazy but that is not unusual.
The Paks could have sent up a Mirage III or a Chinese Mig-17. It was a crap shoot. He just drew the wrong card
I had read in recent years of how the Indian Navy has done good work with Pirate interdiction and helps us out. Is this not the case?
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Not our fight, it is every country in that area’s fight
Good point....sorta like a Maggie Habermann article on the President. Btw, the Indian pilot did shoot down an F-16 (denied by the Paks, as a condition of sale is that the F-16 not supposed to be used in offensive actions).
His MiG-21 probably ran out of fuel
I’ve hung up on several “Johns”, “Jims”, etc., who couldn’t speaky engrish... (yeah, I know, I’m mixing accents)
I’d suspect that after the Indians had made a bombing run on one of the Paki’s ‘training facilities’ that they would respond by moving more advanced air assets into the area. Poor fella might have been better off in a Sopwith Camel.
They have 70 MIG-29s and 250 SU-30s. Why are they sending MIG-21s in?
Currently, the Indian Air Force's fighter jet fleet includes the Soviet-era MiG 21, MiG 27 and MiG 29, the European Jaguar, the Indian Tejas, the French Mirage (which was used to carry out the February 26 airstrike) and the Russian Su-30.
I suspect that you are a little long in the tooth, just like me. Your report of your CGSC classmate was certainly true in our day, but India has come to realize that they chose the wrong side. Simultaneously, we have come to regret our relationship with Pakistan and we can’t find many friends in their government, their intelligence service, and even in their military.
Better relations with India is in the U.S. best interests IMO.
Well no these are new planes I think similar to the F16 the Israelis use. Its the F16 platform with all the new updated armaments, electronics etc.
Well there is the problem. They have targets painted right on them.
A WW1 biplane would be practically impossible to shoot down by a jet fighter.
re advanced assets, I believe that the Indian Air Force will soon be acquiring the French Rafale and possibly the US F-18 Super Hornet.
But the same air frame with the same drawbacks and limitations. There is no way a MIG-21 can maneuver with an F-16 and the Indian Air Force should know it. They had far more capable aircraft available.
I guess the answer to your point is that the Indians (perhaps naively) did not expect the Paks to send F-16s against their military installations, in defiance of the US conditions of F-16 sale.
India has to create a national identity as well; they have a large number of minorities with different religions, languages, etc. - including 140 million Muslims. It has the third largest Muslim population in the world; the partition was very flawed.
“Why are they sending MIG-21s in?”
It’s a very fast disposable bomb truck.
Then they were pretty darned stupid, weren't they?
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