After India Loses Dogfight to Pakistan, Questions Arise About Its ‘Vintage’ Military

NY Times ^ | March 3, 2019 | Maria Abi-Habib

[C19fan]

It was an inauspicious moment for a military the United States is banking on to help keep an expanding China in check. An Indian Air Force pilot found himself in a dogfight last week with a warplane from the Pakistani Air Force, and ended up a prisoner behind enemy lines for a brief time. The pilot made it home in one piece, however bruised and shaken, but the plane, an aging Soviet-era MiG-21, was less lucky. The aerial clash, the first by the South Asian rivals in nearly five decades, was a rare test for the Indian military — and it left observers a bit dumbfounded. While the challenges faced by the India’s armed forces are no secret, its loss of a plane last week to a country whose military is about half the size and receives a quarter of the funding was still telling.

[C19fan]

What limited resources India spends on its military is often squandered on vanity projects. For example, India has built and is building a SSBN fleet. Money have been squandered on developing indigenous weapons systems, for example, Arjun tank.

[Telepathic Intruder]

The Mig-21 dates from the Vietnam war era. It can’t maneuver, only shoot missiles. No wonder.

[Chainmail]

Easy enough to explain: India has cheaped out and used antique MiG-21s when the Pakistanis have invested in the considerably more capable F-16. The Indian MiG was downed using a US AIM-120 AMRAAM missile (in violation of the end-user agreement between the US and Pakistan).

The IAF didn't have a chance and should have known that before taking off.

The bad news is that Pakistan has almost certainly shared our AMRAAM technology with the Chinese.

[SeeSharp]

A Mig-21 vs. an F-16?

The only question is why didn’t the Indian pilot bail out before the fight.

[Gay State Conservative]

India is our ally.Pakistan and China most assuredly are not.

[GeneralisimoFranciscoFranco]

Selling arms to pok-ee-stahn, what could go wrong?

[TheZMan]

Hel.lo, an tenk you for cal.ling tech.nic.al sup.port, my name is John. I see here that your air.plane has been shot down. How can I help you?

[Chainmail]

Oh, the MiG-21 can maneuver and could outmaneuver F4 Phantoms and F-105 Thuds - but the F-16 is a whole new breed of cat, thanks to the experience we got fighting MiG-21s.

The MiG-21 first flew in 1956 and I seem to remember that it's armed with a 23mm cannon. The MiG-21 wreck I found in the Sinai had a cannon.

[Chainmail]

"India is our ally"

Yeah, sort of: lot closer to Russia than us.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

I had read in recent years of how the Indian Navy has done good work with Pirate interdiction and helps us out. Is this not the case?

On another note, the article talks of how the Pakistanis have spent and beefed up their military. Is that true or is this money we gave them to fight the ‘War on Terror?’. If there is a conclusion to the Afghanistan war, then Pakistan needs to be cut off the gravy train.

[unread]

"The bad news is that Pakistan has almost certainly shared our AMRAAM technology with the Chinese."

Bill and Hillary sold that to the commies years ago...

[tellw]

[The Duke]

The only question is why didn’t the Indian pilot bail out before the fight.

Or before the flight! :O

[dp0622]

What does that have to do with this thread?

No one assumed or stated otherwise.

[PAR35]

India is our ally.

India is RUSSIA's ally. China and the US use the Paks to try to balance Russian influence in the Indian Ocean through India. The US has no friends in the region.

[hardspunned]

How much of this technological advantage did we gift to Pakistan?

[Georgia Girl 2]

India even as we speak is upgrading their airforce with an F16 variant. I think they ordered 114 of them.

[VanDeKoik]

Apparently they learned little from their war with China?

[Chainmail]

GSC can be forgiven for thinking that India's an ally: most of us think so - but as anyone with international experience knows, India is Russia's client.

We had an Indian officer in my Command and Staff class and he made it pretty clear that he considered Russia a friend and the US an adversary. (Which made studying with him a bit unique)

[Chainmail]

Enough to give the Chinese a decided boost in their air-to-air missile technologies.

This whole things smells of Obama.