Posted on 01/23/2019 2:21:38 PM PST by rustbucket
I ran across a couple of documents relative to the meaning of Natural Born Citizen, a concept that was a matter of serious discussion in recent presidential elections.
The first of these were 1783 notes by Thomas Jefferson on the meaning of "natural subjects", i.e., when people fit the definition of natural subjects of a country and when they did not. Jefferson’s notes were in part to answer the status of a lady’s son with respect to whether he could inherit property in England. The second item I found was a 1790 US law that defines people born outside of United States as natural born citizens under certain conditions.
Here are Jefferson's extensive notes [Link ] I had searched on ‘natural subject’ which the search results put in bold. Underlines below are mine. I added spaces between lines to help readability.
Letters of Delegates to Congress: Volume 21 October 1, 1783 - October 31, 1784
Thomas Jefferson's Notes
[December ? 1783] (1)
Qu. 1. Can an American citizen, adult, now inherit lands in England?Natural subjects can inherit--Aliens cannot.
There is no middle character--every man must be the one or the other of these.A Natural subject is one born within the king's allegiance & still owing allegiance. No instance can be produced in the English law, nor can it admit the idea of a person's being a natural subject and yet not owing allegiance.
An alien is the subject or citizen of a foreign power.The treaty of peace acknowleges we are no longer to owe allegiance to the king of G.B. It acknowleges us no longer as Natural subjects then.
It makes us citizens of independent states; it makes us aliens then.A treaty with a foreign nation where the king's powers are competent to it as in this which is a case of peace & war, supersedes all law.
If the king's powers were not competent before, the act of parliament of 1782 has made them so. An American citizen adult cannot inherit then.
Qu.2. The father a British subject; the son in America, adult, and within the description of an American citizen, according to their laws. Can the son inherit?He owes no allegiance to Great B. The treaty acknowleges he does not. But allegiance is the test of a natural subject. Were he to do an act here which would be treason in a British subject he could not be punished should he happen to go there.
He owes allegiance to the states. He is an alien then and cannot inherit.Obj. The state of the father draws to it that of the son.
Ans. In Villenage it does, but in no other case at the Com- [mon] law. Thus a Natural subject having a son born in a foreign state; the son was an alien at the Com. law. The stat. 25.E.3. st.2. first naturalized him if both parents were, at the time of his birth, natural subjects; & 7.Ann.c.5. & 4.G.2.c.2l. where the father alone was.
So an Alien in England having a child born there, that child is a natural subject. A denizen purchases land. His children born before denization cannot inherit, but those born after may. The state of the father then does not draw to it that of the child, at the Com. law.
But does it by the statutes? No, for here are statutes first making the son born abroad a natural subject, owing allegiance. Then comes a treaty of peace wherein the king absolves him from his allegiance & declares him an Alien. This then supersedes the authority of the statute.
It is said 2.P.W.124. 1.B1.357. that natural allegiance cannot be cancelled but by act of parl[iament].(2) But surely national treaties supersede acts of parl. The oath of allegiance took it's origin from the feudal oath of fealty. But as the fealty of the vassal could be relinquished by the lord, so can the allegiance of the subject by the king. If he withdraws his protection allegiance is gone. But he can withdraw his protection without consulting parliament.
Qu. Were the k[ing]'s subjects in France aliens?If they were not, did they not become so when given up?
Must they not of course become so when taken from him by a superior power?
Qu. 3. The father a British subject. The son as in Qu. 2. but an infant. Can he inherit?1st. by the Common law.
We have seen before that the state of the father does not draw to it as an accessory that of the son where he is an adult.But by the common law.
Denization may be 1. by parliamt. 2. by letters pat[ent]. 3. by Conquest. As if the k[ing] & his subjects conquer a kingdom, they become denizens of kingdom conquered. Calvin's ca. 6.a.
If an alien have issue born within the k[ing]'s obedience, the issue is a natural only: ib. This excludes enemies possess[in]g a town &c. ib.
Abjuratur still owes allegiance because he may be restored. 9.b. So an outlaw. ib. 14.a.
The law of nature is part of the law of Engld. 12.b.If a noble of another country come to Engld., he sues by his proper name, not by that of his nobility, because on a plea in abatemt that he is not noble, it is not tried by jury but by the record of parliamt. 15.a.
Ambassadors having children born in foreign nation, they are naturl subjects by the com. law. 18.a.
While the kings of Engld. had possessions in France, those born during such possession were naturl subjs. of Engld. 19.a. So is it now of Ireland, Jersey, Guernsey, Man, Alderney, &c.
If a woman alien marrieth a subject she shall not be endowed. 25.a. An alien cannot be ten[ant] by the courtesy. ib.
If Engld & Scotld. sh[oul]d by descent be divided & governed by several kings, those born under one sovereign while the realms were united would remain natural subjects & not aliens. 27.b.
He cannot be a subject born of one kingdom that was born under the ligiance of a king of another kingdom. 18.a.
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MS (DLC: Jefferson Papers). In the hand of Thomas Jefferson and endorsed by him: "Alien. British & American." Jefferson, Papers (Boyd), 6:433-35.1 Jefferson apparently drafted these undated notes on British and American citizenship and alienage during this period not only because he was studying the treaty of peace but also because he had received a specific request for information from Elizabeth House Trist concerning the status of her son Browse, whose father was a British officer. Jefferson's response to Mrs. Trist has not been found, but for his record of it see ibid., p. 418.
For an analysis of American ideas of allegiance and the impact of the American Revolution and the treaty of peace on the rights and duties of citizenship, see James H. Kettner, The Development of American Citizenship, 1608-1870 (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press for the Institute of Early American History and Culture, 1979), chapter 7.
2 Jefferson's references are to P[eere] W[illiams'] Reports, 2:124, and Bl[ackstone's] Commentaries, 1:357, although the latter is in error, for Blackstone's discussion of the cancellation of natural allegiance by act of parliament only is actually found at page 374, not 357, of Book one of his Commentaries. See William Peere Williams, Reports of Cases Argued and Determined in the High Court of Chancery....3 vols. (London, 1740-49); William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England. 4 vols. (Oxford, 1770); and Catalogue of the Library of Thomas Jefferson, comp. by E. Millicent Sowerby, 5 vols. (Washington: Library of Congress, 1951-59), 2:204- 5, 228-29.
Here is the 1790 law of the United States that mentions/defines natural born citizens. “An act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization” (March 26, 1790) [Link, my emphasis below].
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That any Alien being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof on application to any common law Court of record in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such Court that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law to support the Constitution of the United States, which Oath or Affirmation such Court shall administer, and the Clerk of such Court shall record such Application, and the proceedings thereon; and thereupon such person shall be considered as a Citizen of the United States. And the children of such person so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens: Provided, that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States: Provided also, that no person heretofore proscribed by any States, shall be admitted a citizen as aforesaid, except by an Act of the Legislature of the State in which such person was proscribed.
No, the founders were not demanding sole nationality. Otherwise, some other nation could interfere with US Presidential elections by simply granting citizenship to their country.
What the founders were attempting is to define a condition that would show positive allegiance to the United States. Congress could establish a greater set of rules by saying NBC means Citizen parents, born in the US, and resided X years prior to the age of majority is the only condition that qualifies as NBC.
My point is simply this. The Constitution clearly enumerates that Congress has the authority and Congress needs to fix this.
If I go into an Italian consulate with all the paperwork indicating that chain --birth certificates, naturalization papers, marriage certificates, etc.--I can get an Italian passport. Understand, this isn't applying for Italian citizenship. This is proving that I'm already an Italian citizen.
So, here I am, the third generation born on US soil, but Italian law says I'm also an Italian citizen. Am I a natural born citizen?
Odd how "the country of his nationality" is so often used in USC 8, isn't it.
You can use your "Find" function in the link above to USC 8 to see the multiple usages of that phrase as well.
Obama’s father was Kenyan, therefore, a british citizen. Are we to believe the founders wanted the son of a brit to be president right after the war and again after the war of 1812?
Sorry, you are incorrect.
The US does not recognize any state law regarding US citizenship. Please review Title 8 section 1401. You will likely notice that under subsection (A) you are a US citizen at birth. That is assuming you were born in the US.
Texas had nothing to do with it.
If you were born in the country to Citizens parents, then yes, you are a natural born Citizen.
Kamala Harris: No. Both parents were foreign nationals at time of her birth.
Not if you can be claimed by Italy or can claim Italian citizenship.
You can also use the find function for section 1401 - Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
You misrepresent your point by not stating that Congress' authority applies to ALIENS, or foreigners, and not towards citizens.
Incorrect. You would need to pass a Constitutional Amendment to repeal the natural born Citizenship clause in Article II. Not going to happen.
So what another country says about who is or is not a citizen is completely irrelevant. Some here don’t agree.
No comment on me being a State citizen before I'm a US citizen?
Sorry you are incorrect. A uniform rule applies to all.
No one has said a thing about repealing the NBC clause.
So then you believe foreign countries can control who or who is not a natural born US citizen no matter how many generations US born they may be.
See post 90
I’m not an alien so 1401 desn’t apply.
I know, You think you can do an end run around the Constitution by having congress change the definition of natural born Citizen.
NO.
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