How should conversations about toxic masculinity deal with the toxic women who also perpetuate it?

Washington Post ^ | January 18, 2019 | Monica Hesse

[EdnaMode]

So, Gillette, the razor and shaving conglomerate, has released a commercial that is either Oscar-worthy or the devil’s own butthole, depending on your view of masculinity.

This happened while I was home sick and by the time I dragged myself to a screen and actually watched the thing, it didn’t seem as revolutionary or inspirational as it had been described. Mostly, it felt ad-spirational — that weird sweet spot where a company wants to convince you that you can Mach-3 your way to gender equality. But still, Gillette was trying. “It’s time we acknowledge that brands, like ours, play a role in influencing culture,” the company posted on its website, vowing to “challenge gender expectations.”

Sure. Praise be. But, from my sick bed, I had just one thought experiment for Gillette: Should an ad about toxic culture have included toxic women?

If you haven’t seen the commercial, here’s a recap. In a series of vignettes, men harass women, and boys bully each other until a voice-over intones, “We believe in the best in men.” Then, suddenly, the vignettes have heroes: a man tells his friend that harassing is “not cool,” a father instructs two fighting boys, “that’s not how we treat each other.”

The heroes of the commercial are men, the villains are also men, and women are present mostly as props. I appreciate why: the overarching message is that men can and should mentor other men. It’s not a woman’s responsibility to avoid harassment; it’s the responsibility of men to not harass her. Women shouldn’t have to educate men; men are capable of educating themselves.

But if we’re really going to talk about culture, then is there a way to acknowledge that culture is vast, insidious, with roots that go deep and end up producing some misogynist women?

[EdnaMode]

Toxic Masculinity: it doesn't just affect men. It can affect women too!

[Mikemurphy]

Gillette will lose BILLIONS!!! It is over.

[MAGAthon]

WaPo - how can you find space for more of this garbage when you haven’t published a word about:

17 Jan: WSJ: What Bruce Ohr Told the FBI
The Justice Department official’s testimony raises new doubts about the bureau’s honesty.
By Kimberley A. Strassel
Everybody knew. Everybody of consequence at the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Justice Department understood fully in the middle of 2016 - as the FBI embarked on its counterintelligence probe of Donald Trump — that it was doing so based on disinformation provided by Hillary Clinton’s campaign. That’s the big revelation from the transcript of the testimony Justice Department official Bruce Ohr gave Congress in August. The transcripts haven’t been released, but parts were confirmed for me by congressional sources...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-bruce-ohr-told-the-fbi-11547770923

[BenLurkin]

Toxic women: “The Five” Ellen Degenerate Rosie O’donell Miley Cyrus and many more.

[BipolarBob]

I deal with it by boycotting P&G products.

[thoughtomator]

[Lysandru]

Good Grief. The Handmaid's Tale made an appearance in this essay. Crap. I am still somehow amazed at the hold that this story has on Left-wing women. I have not read the novel, but my understanding of it is that the society portrayed is more like an old-school Muslim one more than a fundamentalist Christian one. But we aren't supposed to notice that, are we?

[freeandfreezing]

Monica Hesse missed the main reason that the Gillette ad is offensive and misguided. The ad presents a lot of stereotypical bad male behavior, and then shows people correcting the behavior. Of course, since it was created by typical liberals, the bad behavior is done by white males.

But imagine if a similar ad was made that listed the stereotypical bad behavior of another group - women, blacks, immigrants, gay people, or some religion. And then showed white men correcting the behavior. There would be an immediate uproar from the same liberals that made the Gillette advertisement.

[Jamestown1630]

Simplistic rot, written by someone who obviously grew up (?) in a very artificial world, and has intellectualized her own sexuality.

There are differences between men and women; they’re natural. Some men are ‘good’, or ‘bad’. Same with women.

Before politics and ideology took over the wisdom of Nature, we figured these things out between us quite well enough.

[sauropod]

/eyeroll.

Just what I want. To be lectured to by the company that makes my disposable razor.

[Pajamajan]

Gee I thought this was going to be about "Mean Girls"-bitchy, back-stabbing, gossipy, manipulative women.

Say, Gillete can make an ad about these female types to get gals to behave better, and buy razors.

Surely they would make millions doing this (/s).

[Jeff Chandler]

Just ordered a twin blade adjustable safety razor. Gonna give it a try.

[Freedom4US]

Monica, don’t be an idiot. I don’t need Gillette to be “trying” anything other than make razors. Fail.

Lecture me about BS, insulting, smarmy PC bullshit, then you lost me as a customer. Forever. Advertising is supposed to increase customer base, not turn people away from you (and your parent company).

I have to think about ditching Old Spice too. Well not really. Bye!

If Americans ever got their head out of their ass and became organized, it would be like nothing ever seen. It would take about two weeks and the usual suspects would be apoplectic. This Shit Would Be At An End. I pray for it, daily. Careful what you wish for... But.

[a fool in paradise]

>>has released a commercial that is either Oscar-worthy or the devil’s own butthole, depending on your view of masculinity.

To hear them say it that way makes it sound like the sequel to Manchild Gumby’s “This is Murica” video about horrible white people and black stereotypes.

But it could never be the sequel, because the INTERNET made the sequel that had to be made!

Flying Kitty
This Is America 2 (memes version)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cmg75bgkkg

[Pelham]

I have one of those, a Merkur, but I prefer Harry's.

You have to take your time with a safety razor or you risk nicking yourself.

[Jamestown1630]

That will never happen. Any commercial selling razors to women will show long silky legs and luxurious female self indulgence. Hard to tell whether they’re geared ostensibly or subliminally toward the male or the female; but the message is:

“Use This Razor - Men Will Find You Sexy!”

And women will fall for it. Why else do any of us shave our legs in the first place? If razor manufacturers advertised to feminists who like to go about all hairy - they’d sell no razors :-)

[cpdiii]

How should conversations about toxic masculinity deal with the toxic women who also perpetuate it?

1. Do not sleep with them even if they are so inclined on their rare occasions.

2. Seek out women that love their own femininity and are confident in it. You might even marry her.

3. Do not date or marry progressive women. They hate you.

4. Most importantly understand men and women are different. Each has it superiority and inferiority. Together they make the complete person.

[Tired of Taxes]

Yes, indeed.

I read the book The Handmaid's Tale in the late 1980's. A disturbing story, but I enjoyed dystopian fiction back then.

Later, when our country went to war in Afghanistan, the Taliban looked to me like a real-life version of that story.

I don't watch TV, so I don't know anything about the TV series. But, in the book, "Gilead" was supposedly brought on by a combination of Christianity and feminism. But you're right - it's more like old-school Islam than either Christianity or feminism.

[HotHunt]

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity.

It's the feminists who hate men who made this concept up.

Toxic femininity is the problem, not men.